Idiocracy

[L K]

The Michigan Republicans Palmer and Hartman are at it again trying to rescind their certification of the election. 

Joe Biden needs to stop talking about unification.

This continued appeasement of an idiot is astounding. 

The good news is they can?t actually rescind their certification at this point and a motion was certified to waive reconsideration that same night.  So this is just more stupid theatre to let Trump scream about fake results. 

There needs to be some real reckoning and consequences for this stuff otherwise we will just continue to watch it escalate.  Again, put anyone else in the White House and the Republicans probably walk away with supermajorities all over the place with the level of corruption going on.

 

[Kin]

My only real point is that there's far lefts and far rights. Far rights definitely seem to be more damaging to society as a whole. I will agree with that. It doesn't mean that the far left is good for the country either.

I just don't think there is a "far left" in any meaningful sense in politics. Are there communists? Sure, but the Communist party of Canada got about 4,000 votes in the last election(which is roughly the same number as the Marxist-Leninists did which is a pretty good example of why the far left couldn't organize a bake sale let alone a meaningful political movement).

Beyond that you've got a bunch of parties of Social Democrats to varying degrees whose most radical proposals are things like an end to fossil fuel subsidies or a pretty modest wealth tax or strengthening our social safety net to put us still a half-step behind most European countries.

Trust me, as someone who does subscribe to some ideas that could be considered "far-left" I'd love it if there were any sort of momentum in that direction in our politics but there just isn't.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

My only real point is that there's far lefts and far rights. Far rights definitely seem to be more damaging to society as a whole. I will agree with that. It doesn't mean that the far left is good for the country either.

I just don't think there is a "far left" in any meaningful sense in politics. Are there communists? Sure, but the Communist party of Canada got about 4,000 votes in the last election(which is roughly the same number as the Marxist-Leninists did which is a pretty good example of why the far left couldn't organize a bake sale let alone a meaningful political movement).

Beyond that you've got a bunch of parties of Social Democrats to varying degrees whose most radical proposals are things like an end to fossil fuel subsidies or a pretty modest wealth tax or strengthening our social safety net to put us still a half-step behind most European countries.

Trust me, as someone who does subscribe to some ideas that could be considered "far-left" I'd love it if there were any sort of momentum in that direction in our politics but there just isn't.

Yes, you are correct. there isn't the "far-left" in the same numbers that there is on the far-right. But, it's the far-left that the short sighted on the right seem to "rise up against". Personally, I think it's a lack of education. Or a lack of willingness to see past the end of their own nose.

 

[Kin]

Yes, you are correct. there isn't the "far-left" in the same numbers that there is on the far-right. But, it's the far-left that the short sighted on the right seem to "rise up against". Personally, I think it's a lack of education. Or a lack of willingness to see past the end of their own nose.

But that's why I'm saying there isn't really a symmetry between the Left and the Right here. If anything, the last few NDP leaders have looked to moderate their party and I've never heard anyone supporting the NDP say that, despite vote totals, they somehow represent a majority of Canadian voices.

Contrast that to the CPC and I really haven't seen any sign that, despite the fact that they haven't come close to a majority share of the vote in almost 40 years, there's a need to moderate their party to try and win voters from the middle and even potentially the left. In fact, if anything, they've almost always moved away from moderate candidates and their successes at the provincial level lately have come from people like Ford and Kenney.

This isn't to say that, as you put it, anyone who typically votes Conservative is actually hard right but rather that as we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

On the contrary, I see CPC constantly moving left on social issues. What are you referring to exactly?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Yes, you are correct. there isn't the "far-left" in the same numbers that there is on the far-right. But, it's the far-left that the short sighted on the right seem to "rise up against". Personally, I think it's a lack of education. Or a lack of willingness to see past the end of their own nose.

But that's why I'm saying there isn't really a symmetry between the Left and the Right here. If anything, the last few NDP leaders have looked to moderate their party and I've never heard anyone supporting the NDP say that, despite vote totals, they somehow represent a majority of Canadian voices.

Contrast that to the CPC and I really haven't seen any sign that, despite the fact that they haven't come close to a majority share of the vote in almost 40 years, there's a need to moderate their party to try and win voters from the middle and even potentially the left. In fact, if anything, they've almost always moved away from moderate candidates and their successes at the provincial level lately have come from people like Ford and Kenney.

This isn't to say that, as you put it, anyone who typically votes Conservative is actually hard right but rather that as we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

I'm as confused as the next guy in regards to why the Ford's of the world are being elected as leader. I'm not sure what my pushback should be though.

 

[Joe S.]

I just saw a poll on cnn (I can?t remember the source) that among republicans polled 70% believe the election was rigged.

That country is a flaming tire fire.

 

[Bender]

I just saw a poll on cnn (I can?t remember the source) that among republicans polled 70% believe the election was rigged.

That country is a flaming tire fire.

I think I read somewhere that 70% of Republicans thought that Obama wasn't born in the US so I mean this is just an extension of that. They don't give a shit about their democratic institutions, just if their guy wins. The GOP honestly could go full authoritarian and I wouldn't be shocked.

 

[Bender]

we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

On the contrary, I see CPC constantly moving left on social issues. What are you referring to exactly?

Is that why O'Toole went with the Take Canada Back slogan? A push to moderation?

 

[Kin]

we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

On the contrary, I see CPC constantly moving left on social issues.

Such as? In what way is the party notably to the left of Stephen Harper on any social issues?

 

[princedpw]

I just saw a poll on cnn (I can?t remember the source) that among republicans polled 70% believe the election was rigged.

That country is a flaming tire fire.

I think I read somewhere that 70% of Republicans thought that Obama wasn't born in the US so I mean this is just an extension of that. They don't give a shit about their democratic institutions, just if their guy wins. The GOP honestly could go full authoritarian and I wouldn't be shocked.

Instead of ?could go?, do you mean ?has gone??

 

[princedpw]

The Michigan Republicans Palmer and Hartman are at it again trying to rescind their certification of the election. 

.... 

The good news is they can?t actually rescind their certification at this point and a motion was certified to waive reconsideration that same night. 

The concerning thing is that in 4 years, republicans will be more organized.  I?m not sure I understand the consequences of those two people not certifying the election.  But, if there are individual positions around the country that can be staffed by partisan republicans and those individuals can refuse to sign off on election results, throwing an entire state, then I think republicans are going to put those people in the right places for the next election. So I think we might have 4 more years of American democracy and that?s about it unless a minor miracle happens in the Georgia senate races.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

we're seeing some of the creeping authoritarianism and populism infect our own Conservative institutions, I'm not seeing a ton of pushback from the supposed more moderate Conservatives.

On the contrary, I see CPC constantly moving left on social issues. What are you referring to exactly?

Is that why O'Toole went with the Take Canada Back slogan? A push to moderation?

Nominations like O'Toole and Ford have really made me question my voting tendencies.

What I can say, is that in an instance like this, it's really difficult to make a sharp left turn into the complete opposite party, which I think is why you see more "liberal" Conservatives finding it difficult to push back. Or even knowing how to push back.

I can tell you that every Conservative voter I know(really that's just my family as I don't talk a lot of politics with friends), is embarrassed by Ford and concerned about O'Toole. I can tell you that I didn't vote O'Toole in the past election. Nor do I think he's the right person for the job. It's concerning when the party you've been voting for has wandered off into an area you don't agree with. I don't necessarily agree with Liberal or NDP policies. Now we find ourselves not agreeing with Conservative policies(or methods) either.

 

[Zee]

Edward Norton with the truth bombs, read through the whole thread

https://twitter.com/EdwardNorton/status/1329728889296355328?s=20

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/stevehofstetter/status/1329821726792933376

 

[Joe S.]

I know I should know better than to think logically, but I don?t understand why only the states where trump lost are ripe with fraudulent votes. Why are all the votes for trump squeaky clean and legit. If there?s fraud then every state should be under

And I know, there was no fraud.

He is literally now working on having electors overturn the results. Part of me wants it to happen to watch the chaos that ensues, but wow. I?m at a loss for words.

 

[Bender]

I know I should know better than to think logically, but I don?t understand why only the states where trump lost are ripe with fraudulent votes. Why are all the votes for trump squeaky clean and legit. If there?s fraud then every state should be under

And I know, there was no fraud.

He is literally now working on having electors overturn the results. Part of me wants it to happen to watch the chaos that ensues, but wow. I?m at a loss for words.

There is 0% of me that wants to see American democracy fail.

 

[Bullfrog]

I know I should know better than to think logically, but I don?t understand why only the states where trump lost are ripe with fraudulent votes. Why are all the votes for trump squeaky clean and legit. If there?s fraud then every state should be under

And I know, there was no fraud.
.

I doubt there's a claim there was no fraud in states Trump won. But why would they contest results where they won?

Also, there were 100M+ votes. It's almost guaranteed there were fraudulent votes. But they are statistically insignificant.

 

[Joe S.]

My point is why would the rigging be only on one side.

Anyway it does not matter because this is all complete nonesense.

 

[princedpw]

Anyway it does not matter because this is all complete nonesense.

Yup.

This situation, and others like it, reveal a big flaw in humans. We are very easily mislead. And once mislead, it is very difficult to get us back on track. Facts, logic, rational arguments generally don?t work.  And there is at least some evidence that it isn?t really about how smart someone is. So in the future, we are going to be lead by the people with the most compelling social media narrative. That?s it.