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Idiocracy

It's kind of funny how a lot of the debate re: Twitter over the last few days has mirrored some of the debate we had here about Moderation earlier during the pandemic.

I obviously have a lot of thoughts regarding the idea of "Free speech" and how the concept it being used here but one of the more interesting responses has been people, generally on the left, saying "You may be applauding Twitter for banning Trump but what happens if they choose to ban something you like?" and leaving aside the problem with slippery slope arguments in general, I really am puzzled by the idea that there are a whole bunch of people who signed up to use Twitter at any point, or any website, and was at some point not under the impression that their ability to keep using that website was at the discretion of the website's owners.
 
Nik said:
It's kind of funny how a lot of the debate re: Twitter over the last few days has mirrored some of the debate we had here about Moderation earlier during the pandemic.

I obviously have a lot of thoughts regarding the idea of "Free speech" and how the concept it being used here but one of the more interesting responses has been people, generally on the left, saying "You may be applauding Twitter for banning Trump but what happens if they choose to ban something you like?" and leaving aside the problem with slippery slope arguments in general, I really am puzzled by the idea that there are a whole bunch of people who signed up to use Twitter at any point, or any website, and was at some point not under the impression that their ability to keep using that website was at the discretion of the website's owners.
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The thing with me is I dont really care if someone I "like" gets banned. If it's in flagrant violation of the ToS and code of conduct then absolutely they should be banned.

I'd be rightfully given a restraining order and not allowed back on Cadillac Fairview property if I tried inciting patrons at Eaton's Centre to attack foot locker employees because they stole their shoes and they need to "take them back."
 
Bender said:
The thing with me is I dont really care if someone I "like" gets banned. If it's in flagrant violation of the ToS and code of conduct then absolutely they should be banned.
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Well, I mean, sure but even if a online juggernaut acts capriciously or decides to change their ToS unfairly we always have to remember that they're not our friends. It's like when YouTube makes changes and you see people who make videos be upset about it and they basically seem to think that because YouTube has created a situation where they can make money off their videos they're akin to YouTube employees or, even less reasonably, partners.

YouTube or Twitter could shut down tomorrow. They could pivot to being about Cat pictures only. People need to stop thinking of these companies as their friends or even generally speaking benevolent or neutral actors. They're large corporations and they're always going to act like large corporations.

I think having a discussion about the way the internet's infrastructure has largely fallen into private hands rather than the public probably needs to be addressed but that's true of so many things that are so much more fundamental to people's lives than any sort of online forum.
 
Nik said:
Bender said:
The thing with me is I dont really care if someone I "like" gets banned. If it's in flagrant violation of the ToS and code of conduct then absolutely they should be banned.
Click to expand...

Well, I mean, sure but even if a online juggernaut acts capriciously or decides to change their ToS unfairly we always have to remember that they're not our friends. It's like when YouTube makes changes and you see people who make videos be upset about it and they basically seem to think that because YouTube has created a situation where they can make money off their videos they're akin to YouTube employees or, even less reasonably, partners.

YouTube or Twitter could shut down tomorrow. They could pivot to being about Cat pictures only. People need to stop thinking of these companies as their friends or even generally speaking benevolent or neutral actors. They're large corporations and they're always going to act like large corporations.

I think having a discussion about the way the internet's infrastructure has largely fallen into private hands rather than the public probably needs to be addressed but that's true of so many things that are so much more fundamental to people's lives than any sort of online forum.
Click to expand...

Right. So, I have?t thought deeply about this one but my guess is that all these online firms are pulling the trigger on the trump/white supremacy ban not because they have suddenly found their moral compass but rather because they are looking ahead to the fact that the democrats now have power and are going to consider regulating big tech.  In other words, the Trump ban is simply an attempt to curry liberal favor ahead of the coming regulation battle.
 
princedpw said:
not because they have suddenly found their moral compass but rather because they are looking ahead to the fact that the democrats now have power and are going to consider regulating big tech.
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Yeah, I think that's more likely than not. I'd wager Trump generates a substantial amount of money for twitter/facebook/youtube etc - I don't see any of these companies aligned with the public good over profit without the threat of regulation.
 
Nik said:
Bender said:
The thing with me is I dont really care if someone I "like" gets banned. If it's in flagrant violation of the ToS and code of conduct then absolutely they should be banned.
Click to expand...

Well, I mean, sure but even if a online juggernaut acts capriciously or decides to change their ToS unfairly we always have to remember that they're not our friends. It's like when YouTube makes changes and you see people who make videos be upset about it and they basically seem to think that because YouTube has created a situation where they can make money off their videos they're akin to YouTube employees or, even less reasonably, partners.

YouTube or Twitter could shut down tomorrow. They could pivot to being about Cat pictures only. People need to stop thinking of these companies as their friends or even generally speaking benevolent or neutral actors. They're large corporations and they're always going to act like large corporations.

I think having a discussion about the way the internet's infrastructure has largely fallen into private hands rather than the public probably needs to be addressed but that's true of so many things that are so much more fundamental to people's lives than any sort of online forum.
Click to expand...
Oh definitely. I would say I'm a healthy mix of capitalist/social democrat but I think it's foolish to think private corporations are always onside with the public interest, and especially not onside as much as most Americans seem to think they are. But yeah, it's kind of tough to conceptualize an internet that would be considered multinational public access or what have you at this point.
 
princedpw said:
Right. So, I have?t thought deeply about this one but my guess is that all these online firms are pulling the trigger on the trump/white supremacy ban not because they have suddenly found their moral compass but rather because they are looking ahead to the fact that the democrats now have power and are going to consider regulating big tech.  In other words, the Trump ban is simply an attempt to curry liberal favor ahead of the coming regulation battle.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt there are elements of that in there but I also think a major factor is that there's some real market-based downside for these companies if they're seen as complicit with the worst of what Trump's politics have brought out. Apparently before Trump's ban Twitter had an organized effort from their own employees to get the CEO to take a harder stance. There is a tipping point for a lot of these places where being on the wrong side of a political issue can very much hurt their brand and recruitment efforts. Think of the way big companies have publicly tried to associate with the LGBT cause through sponsoring Pride Days or how they made those posts for Black Lives Matter.

Lots of movements have tipping points where big, self interested corporations decide that being on one side or another is no longer in their interest. The both sidesing of fascism and those opposed to fascism that we've seen so much of the last four years may have had that moment on the 6th.
 
Nik said:
It's kind of funny how a lot of the debate re: Twitter over the last few days has mirrored some of the debate we had here about Moderation earlier during the pandemic.

I obviously have a lot of thoughts regarding the idea of "Free speech" and how the concept it being used here but one of the more interesting responses has been people, generally on the left, saying "You may be applauding Twitter for banning Trump but what happens if they choose to ban something you like?" and leaving aside the problem with slippery slope arguments in general, I really am puzzled by the idea that there are a whole bunch of people who signed up to use Twitter at any point, or any website, and was at some point not under the impression that their ability to keep using that website was at the discretion of the website's owners.
Click to expand...

I'm most concerned that this is a topic of discussion. Say it back to yourself. "The President of the United States was banned from twitter". Twitter! Why is this even a thing. Social media is rotting our society and this is what people are up in arms about? Why is the President of the United States even on Twitter?
 
https://twitter.com/TrueFactsStated/status/1349321434959671297
https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1349232278636011520
https://twitter.com/alexadobrien/status/1349124839274139656
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1349371135973072902
Just a bit of light treason to kick off your year the right way
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/alexadobrien/status/1349124839274139656
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If this is true, it is completely inexcusable and absolutely unforgiveable. These three need to be removed from Congress and put behind bars.
 
bustaheims said:
Oh boo-hoo. They now face the same inconvenience as thousands of high school students across the nation.
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Almost. When high school kids complain about metal detectors it's not because they want to be able to carry guns into school.
 
To the shock of no one, Republicans feel we need to move on and shouldn't impeach Trump because we need to come together and heal.

I'm so tired of these awful people.
 
L K said:
To the shock of no one, Republicans feel we need to move on and shouldn't impeach Trump because we need to come together and heal.

I'm so tired of these awful people.
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Accountability? We don't need no stinkin' accountability.
 
Pathetic. 10 republicans. That's it.

They shouldn't have even bothered bringing the motion. Now this pointless garbage is going to drag into Biden's tenure.
 
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