Idiocracy

[Bates]

Let's not kid ourselves and think we have a perfect system either, the wait times in this Country are rather atrocious and the amount of budget health care is taking up is heading in a bad direction.  We coukd use a reset of our own.  But I'm very happy people aren't going bankrupt staying alive.

Is that truly the question? Because pretty much every developed country has answered it already.

 

[Kin]

I agree with all of that but the US is not heading anywhere near a direction that gets rid of health insurance providers any time in the near future.  That's why I suggested a slow realing in of insurance companies and providers while forcing all citizens to buy into the program.  Just another way of heading towards single payer that the masses just might be able to swallow.

Well, I think support for single payer is better in the states than you're making it out to be. Most polls, depending on how the question is asked, has support for a single payer system at anywhere from 33 to 58% and it's especially popular among younger voters. Beyond that, there's very high support for some sort of basic health care provided by the federal government.

But regardless, if you're looking for some sort of intermediary step between what exists now and single payer the public option in an insurance market seems like it would be the best possible solution. It could effectively be revenue neutral, it would be the best way to ensure a low cost option for the most vulnerable and it would put the basic premise that conservatives like to talk up(that private healthcare is better than public healthcare) to a market-based test.

 

[Bates]

I was talking more at the decision making level and I don't think there is that much support there for single payer system.  The problem with polls is that they aren't always accurate. I think they need to head towards single payer but like I said I think that will be a process rife with resistance at every change.  I meet and interact with many Americans and though this is obviously anecdotal I never meet anyone who wants to be paying for anyone else's health care.  It will be a long road made even longer by poor leadership.

I agree with all of that but the US is not heading anywhere near a direction that gets rid of health insurance providers any time in the near future.  That's why I suggested a slow realing in of insurance companies and providers while forcing all citizens to buy into the program.  Just another way of heading towards single payer that the masses just might be able to swallow.

Well, I think support for single payer is better in the states than you're making it out to be. Most polls, depending on how the question is asked, has support for a single payer system at anywhere from 33 to 58% and it's especially popular among younger voters. Beyond that, there's very high support for some sort of basic health care provided by the federal government.

But regardless, if you're looking for some sort of intermediary step between what exists now and single payer the public option in an insurance market seems like it would be the best possible solution. It could effectively be revenue neutral, it would be the best way to ensure a low cost option for the most vulnerable and it would put the basic premise that conservatives like to talk up(that private healthcare is better than public healthcare) to a market-based test.

 

[Kin]

I was talking more at the decision making level and I don't think there is that much support there for single payer system.

Among Republicans, no. Many Democratic lawmakers have come out in favour of a single payer system including, in Bernie Sanders, a guy who frequently polls as one of the most popular politicians in the US.

In fact, I think a single payer system was part of the Democratic platform in the last election.

  The problem with polls is that they aren't always accurate.

Actually, they tend to be fairly accurate. Even in a case like the most recent presidential election where the polls took a beating in public perception for the most part they were only off by a a number within the margin of error. At most you're talking about an error within single digits.

I meet and interact with many Americans and though this is obviously anecdotal I never meet anyone who wants to be paying for anyone else's health care.

Just about everyone in my family aside from my immediate family are American. I can say pretty emphatically that my experience with Americans is different.

Still though, this is why a public option would seemingly meet everyone's criteria. If you didn't want to subsidize anyone else's healthcare, you could purchase whatever private plan you liked. The people who did want to form some sort of government-administered health care collective could choose to do so(which, again, could be revenue neutral).

The reason there was such fierce opposition to a public option among GOP politicians is because of a simple truth, that a non-profit public option would almost certainly be wildly popular, which would adversely affect their primary interest in the matter which isn't the well-being of their constituents but is instead the financial well-being of the insurance industry. That's why there's a disconnect between policy polling and political will. Sick people don't have lobbyists, big healthcare does.

 

[Bates]

I guess the Bernie popularity is kinda my point on polls.  He's the most popular politician according to the polls yet less than a year ago couldn't win the party nomination against possibly the worst candidate in a long time.  Who in turn couldn't beat the worst candidate possibly ever.  There is a big difference between answering a poll question and actually voting for the person or party. 

 

[Kin]

I guess the Bernie popularity is kinda my point on polls.  He's the most popular politician according to the polls yet less than a year ago couldn't win the party nomination against possibly the worst candidate in a long time.  Who in turn couldn't beat the worst candidate possibly ever.

But that assumes that the only factor that goes into elections is a candidate's relative popularity with the general public and that things like, say, strategic voting, money and/or party support are immaterial. Likewise, the reason Hillary Clinton was such a bad candidate was her relative unpopularity with center-leaning R's and independents, precisely the sort of people who don't influence primary voting.

Primary voting is an indication of popularity within a party, not among the populace at large.

 

[herman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40729996

Classic Trump MO: distracts from the multi-pile tire fire that is his administration by starting a new one elsewhere. Dang it, I just took the bait.

 

[Andy007]

I miss the days when people were forced into military duty and were able to use their vast family wealth and connections to get out of said duty. And then went on to start wars and impose their own beliefs on who is fit to serve their country, despite never knowing what that entails.

We really are living in a warped George Orwell/Joseph Heller novel, aren't we?

 

[herman]

Spicier than the Spice Man:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

I'm guessing the Mooch and the Donald have the same dealer.

Obamacare survived the midnight vote again, btw.

 

[Bullfrog]

He's just a straight-shooting son-of-a-gun.

 

[Kin]

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Scaramucci has responded by blaming the reporter for printing what he said, which either means Scaramucci didn't understand to ask for his conversation to be off the record or he did, the reporter printed it anyway and Scaramucci was effectively committing one of the "leaks" his numbskull boss thinks is a federal offense.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Scaramucci has responded by blaming the reporter for printing what he said, which either means Scaramucci didn't understand to ask for his conversation to be off the record or he did, the reporter printed it anyway and Scaramucci was effectively committing one of the "leaks" his numbskull boss thinks is a federal offense.

The best part: the guy CALLED the reporter demanding to know who was leaking information from the White House.

 

[Arn]

Remember back when we thought George W was a bit dumb and slow and all?

Then we got Obama who was intelligent, eloquent and erudite.

So the US decided it was best to go back to George W to the power of infinity

 

[Kin]

Remember back when we thought George W was a bit dumb and slow and all?

Then we got Obama who was intelligent, eloquent and erudite.

So the US decided it was best to go back to George W to the power of infinity

The last three Democratic presidents were a constitutional lawyer, a Rhodes scholar and a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

 

[L K]

Preibus is fired.  John Kelly is the new Chief of Staff.  That probably isn't going to go over well with the GOP.  I think Reince was essentially a spy in Trump's broom blister.  I'm expecting more Republican dissent against him moving forward.

 

[Bates]

I liked Obama but that Peace prize was pretty suspect.

Remember back when we thought George W was a bit dumb and slow and all?

Then we got Obama who was intelligent, eloquent and erudite.

So the US decided it was best to go back to George W to the power of infinity

The last three Democratic presidents were a constitutional lawyer, a Rhodes scholar and a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

 

[Kin]

I liked Obama but that Peace prize was pretty suspect.

No, although I see how you could make that mistake. Obama was the Constitutional Lawyer. I'm referring to the other Democratic President who won the Peace Prize.

 

[Bates]

Gotcha. That makes more sense.  My point still stands.

I liked Obama but that Peace prize was pretty suspect.

No, although I see how you could make that mistake. Obama was the Constitutional Lawyer. I'm referring to the other Democratic President who won the Peace Prize.

 

[Kin]

Gotcha. That makes more sense.  My point still stands.

I don't agree so much but I'm not super interested in an 8 year old argument.

 

[Arn]

Pretty scathing assessment in the UK papers tomorrow 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/observer-view-of-donald-trump-unifit-for-office