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Idiocracy

Nik the Trik said:
So I really don't think this is a case of "both sides" being equally obstinate. One side seems genuinely interested in finding a solution and the other seems determined from preventing a discussion from even taking place.
I would agree with that. I am just so damned frustrated with what my country has become that I can't even express myself clearly anymore. The worst part is that I cannot see any way out of it, short of another civil or world war.

Bates said:
I meet a lot of people who think that the idea of paying for someone else's healthcare is nothing short of full blown socialism. The same folks then later tell me of the horrible story of how much a co-pay medical treatment cost them??? Sometimes I explain the single payer would actually help even them but most times I just laugh inside.
It's pretty ridiculous, isn't it? Those same people drive on roads that are paid for by taxes (socialism), will gladly take FEMA assistance when a natural disaster strikes (socialism), and certainly will be collecting SOCIAL security when they can.

The concern with single payer healthcare is that the government would make a mess of it or there would be massive fraud (like with medicare currently) but it's going to happen eventually. Better sooner than later.
 
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/374086-rubio-someone-who-wants-to-commit-a-shooting-will-find-a-way-to-get-the-gun

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said Thursday that gun control legislation wouldn?t have prevented the mass shooting at a Florida high school, saying that those want to commit shootings ?will find a way to get the gun to do it.?

And, here begins the "gun control won't fix everything, so let's not do anything" progression that always seems to follow these events.
 
bustaheims said:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/374086-rubio-someone-who-wants-to-commit-a-shooting-will-find-a-way-to-get-the-gun

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said Thursday that gun control legislation wouldn?t have prevented the mass shooting at a Florida high school, saying that those want to commit shootings ?will find a way to get the gun to do it.?

And, here begins the "gun control won't fix everything, so let's not do anything" progression that always seems to follow these events.

I just don't get the thought process there though. I'm an adult with a fair amount of cash at my disposal who owns guns and I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to begin if I wanted to buy an illegal gun. Honestly, if I decided to shoot up an office building tomorrow I wouldn't have a clue what to do short of googling "how to buy an assault rifle".

But to Rubio, a 19 year old loner is going to figure out how to navigate the black market for whatever they want.
 
Nik the Trik said:
I just don't get the thought process there though. I'm an adult with a fair amount of cash at my disposal who owns guns and I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to begin if I wanted to buy an illegal gun. Honestly, if I decided to shoot up an office building tomorrow I wouldn't have a clue what to do short of googling "how to buy an assault rifle".

But to Rubio, a 19 year old loner is going to figure out how to navigate the black market for whatever they want.

Oh, I know. It's a ridiculous argument. It's not like you can just stumble into the black market. Career criminals and such might be able to, but, very very few of those behind these mass shootings have that kind of history - especially school shooters. They've almost all picked up their guns legally or through gun show loopholes. It's really not a coincidence that countries that have stricter gun controls don't experience anywhere near the number of mass shootings as the US does - these incidents can very much be mitigated through making it harder to get guns and limiting the types of guns available to the average person.
 
Australia literally proves that introducing gun controls can make a difference.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-control/541710/

On April 28, 1996, a 28-year-old Australian man named Martin Bryant ate lunch at Broad Arrow Cafe in Port Arthur, Tasmania, a historic penal colony that is a popular tourist resort. After his meal, he returned his tray, removed a semiautomatic rifle from his bag, and opened fire. By the time Bryant was caught a day later, 35 people were dead and 23 wounded in what became the worst mass shooting in Australian history?one whose impact is felt even today.

He noted that, among other things, the Australian government ?banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.?

There was widespread opposition at the time to the legislation. Queensland and Tasmania, where the massacre occurred, were traditionally opposed to any gun-control legislation.

The number of mass shootings in Australia?defined as incidents in which a gunman killed five or more people other than himself, which is notably a higher casualty count than is generally applied for tallying mass shootings in the U.S.?dropped from 13 in the 18-year period before 1996 to zero after the Port Arthur massacre. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively, though these declines appear to have since leveled off.
 
The key differencess between Canada & the United States in gun ownership.  Among these:

Virtually every gun used in an American mass shooting is legally available for purchase in Canada. Despite this, Canada doesn?t come close to suffering the same rate of mass shootings as the United States.

Whenever Americans discuss gun control, it?s only natural that they look to the policies of their much less bullet-riddled northern neighbour. But even Canadian law can only do so much.

Below, an analysis of just what Canadian firearms policies could have done to stop some of America?s worst mass shootings.

First, some basics

Nobody legally buys a gun in Canada without first taking the Canadian Firearms Safety Course. Then, they have to submit an application for a Possession and Acquistion Licence (PAL), where they?re screened by the RCMP for risk factors such as criminal history and mental health.

Guns and many types of semi-automatic rifles that can only be legally owned for the purposes of target shooting. With very few exceptions, private firearms are not sold as ?weapons? in Canada. The only legal reason for owning a firearm in Canada is as a tool to kill animals or as a piece of sporting equipment to shoot paper targets. This is in sharp contrast to the United States, where gun ownership is closely correlated with self-defence.

The semi-automatic pistol is prohibited in Canada, which means it cannot be legally owned except under special conditions...firearms...originally purchased anonymously from unlicensed sellers at...gun shows. These types of sales are not permitted in Canada.

The Canadian screening process is not airtight, of course. Filing a PAL is much like submitting a tax return: A criminal can simply lie and cross their fingers that nobody notices. Organized crime already knows this, which is why Canada has a documented problem with ?straw man? purchases: A criminal successfully obtains a restricted PAL and proceeds to buy up scores of handguns for distribution to criminal networks.

One hard-to-quantify effect of Canadian firearms screening is how many unstable individuals simply never bother to apply. The application form asks applicants to specify their conjugal status, for instance, and implies that police will be calling up exes. ?Anyone with an angry ex isn?t going to get a (possession licence) for example,?one firearms instructor told the National Post. Canada has anonymous hotlines by which friends or neighbours can call a Canadian?s firearms licence into question. Canadian Firearms Safety Course instructors are also told by RCMP to report any students in their classes who seem suspicious. A bit Orwellian, perhaps, but it?s one of several ways in which Canada is able collar the kinds of would-be mass murderers with clean criminal records that U.S. law finds so hard to stop.


Long, long article going over each of the mass killings perpetrated by the shooters involved, their circumstances, etc., and how each of these situations differs or compares as per the Canadian checks & balances of probability.


http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/would-canadian-gun-laws-have-stopped-americas-worst-mass-shooters
 
cabber24 said:
Give guns to teachers...  His buffonery knows no bounds.

'Murica! Pretty soon the answer will be to have everyone armed and ready to shoot at all times. Shoot first, ask questions later, I always say!
 
Bender said:
cabber24 said:
Give guns to teachers...  His buffonery knows no bounds.

'Murica! Pretty soon the answer will be to have everyone armed and ready to shoot at all times. Shoot first, ask questions later, I always say!
For any sane person living in USA that may have to be a unfortunate consideration for protection.
 
It's funny being American I was real excited with the Gold Medal Game last night. Then a friend of mine from Nova Scotia reminded me that DT is running my country.. I immediately shut my mouth
 
cabber24 said:
Bender said:
cabber24 said:
Give guns to teachers...  His buffonery knows no bounds.

'Murica! Pretty soon the answer will be to have everyone armed and ready to shoot at all times. Shoot first, ask questions later, I always say!
For any sane person living in USA that may have to be a unfortunate consideration for protection.
And yet there will be no unsafer time as when everyone is armed and ready to go at a moment's notice. And the funny thing is everyone says they love America. For the people or the ideals? Because they seem to be ok killing each other - the people that make up America - for ideas of America. That just seems so insane to me.
 
https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/966754740959883265

Stupid analogy aside... does he think this is a compliment to the GOP?
 
Nik the Trik said:
I'm pretty sure the Simpsons have made it clear who votes for the Republicans in their universe.

That, and they also made it pretty clear who Homer would have voted for in the past election. The Republicans might be the party of Abe Simpson, but, he's their only Simpson.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966681883206668289

Well, at least he's open about being in their pocket I guess.
Trump is just going to go out of his way to support the NRA right now, why not? Why on earth would this be a bad time to do that?
 

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