Is Burke Handicapping Himself?
- Thread starter McPwnage
- Start date
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Like I've said, I think that Reimer has the chance to be a solid starter, but is more than likely a career back up. I personally feel from watching Reimer that his style isn't suited to truly be a game 'stealer' like the other true starters in the league.
That being said, I think Scrivens has the higher ceiling of the two as I think his style lends itself to being a true NHL starter. His only downfall may be the fact he's already 26 and yet to break in to the league.
Just my opinion.
That being said, I think Scrivens has the higher ceiling of the two as I think his style lends itself to being a true NHL starter. His only downfall may be the fact he's already 26 and yet to break in to the league.
Just my opinion.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
sickbeast said:
Hindsight's 20/20 isn't it.
Burke (aka JFJ II) handicapped himself when he made the Kessel deal and has continued to do so continuously ever since, nmaking one move after another in a vain attempt to fast track a rebuild.
In fact, if the Kessel deal had not been made, I rather doubt many of the failed subsequent moves would have occured. I believe that the Kessel deal and the criticism it generated put Burke under the gun to ensure that Leafs improved and fast.
The roster at that point in time was not two Kessels away from any degree of even modest success, let alone one.
Then to give up what turned out to be Seguin and Hamilton (and another pick) in the face of the "it's not going to take 5 years" build made things even worse.
We had no strength at the NHL or at the AHL level so how was giving up two or three draft picks going to advance this team?
Well, I suppose BB's dictum of "July 1st will be our draft day" was part two of his plan. The problem with that strategy is that any UFA worth having invariably re-signs in advance or is traded to a team that signs him to a new contract. Coincidental with that team building philosophy was the notion that U.S. college free agents would be signed.
The net result of these last two brainstorms has been Bozak and some pretty dreadful UFA signings in virtually every off season. Thankfully given his dismal record, Burke and his front office of thousands has slowed down this summer on the UFAs.
Burke's trading acumen is at about a 50% level with one or two good ones but then one or two clunkers.
Finally we have some prospects and a decent AHL team but that was not the goal. We got the prospects and the AHL roster enhancement largely via the draft. Almost 5 years ago we were told that he did not have the luxury of a 5 yrear build; we needed a goalie and a centre.
We still neeed a goalie and a centre.
Five years? More like 8 years before this team will be truly playoff competitive.
Superimposed on all of this are the truly bizarre house rules BB operates under: No trades for an extended time around Christmas. Real GMs do not put out offer sheets. Real GMs don't lottery protect the draft picks they trade. We need an earlier trade deadline just for the Leafs.
The inaction this summer has been at once maddening yet strangely comforting in that I desperately expect something to be done yet given the history, doing nothing is actually an improvement with this management.
I have zero hope for next season and not much more for the one after that. If we retain Burke -- despite the almost certain playoff miss that lies ahead of us -- that will send a terrific message to fans and players alike. If we fire his keester out of town, the next guy will likely start to dismantle what structure we have to get an immediate winner. The cycle repeats.
Best hope is a season long strike/lockout. It is an embarrassment for the whole league, not just the Leafs.
These guys manage about as well as Raycroft played goal for us -- we're better off when they are sleeping.
In fact, if the Kessel deal had not been made, I rather doubt many of the failed subsequent moves would have occured. I believe that the Kessel deal and the criticism it generated put Burke under the gun to ensure that Leafs improved and fast.
The roster at that point in time was not two Kessels away from any degree of even modest success, let alone one.
Then to give up what turned out to be Seguin and Hamilton (and another pick) in the face of the "it's not going to take 5 years" build made things even worse.
We had no strength at the NHL or at the AHL level so how was giving up two or three draft picks going to advance this team?
Well, I suppose BB's dictum of "July 1st will be our draft day" was part two of his plan. The problem with that strategy is that any UFA worth having invariably re-signs in advance or is traded to a team that signs him to a new contract. Coincidental with that team building philosophy was the notion that U.S. college free agents would be signed.
The net result of these last two brainstorms has been Bozak and some pretty dreadful UFA signings in virtually every off season. Thankfully given his dismal record, Burke and his front office of thousands has slowed down this summer on the UFAs.
Burke's trading acumen is at about a 50% level with one or two good ones but then one or two clunkers.
Finally we have some prospects and a decent AHL team but that was not the goal. We got the prospects and the AHL roster enhancement largely via the draft. Almost 5 years ago we were told that he did not have the luxury of a 5 yrear build; we needed a goalie and a centre.
We still neeed a goalie and a centre.
Five years? More like 8 years before this team will be truly playoff competitive.
Superimposed on all of this are the truly bizarre house rules BB operates under: No trades for an extended time around Christmas. Real GMs do not put out offer sheets. Real GMs don't lottery protect the draft picks they trade. We need an earlier trade deadline just for the Leafs.
The inaction this summer has been at once maddening yet strangely comforting in that I desperately expect something to be done yet given the history, doing nothing is actually an improvement with this management.
I have zero hope for next season and not much more for the one after that. If we retain Burke -- despite the almost certain playoff miss that lies ahead of us -- that will send a terrific message to fans and players alike. If we fire his keester out of town, the next guy will likely start to dismantle what structure we have to get an immediate winner. The cycle repeats.
Best hope is a season long strike/lockout. It is an embarrassment for the whole league, not just the Leafs.
These guys manage about as well as Raycroft played goal for us -- we're better off when they are sleeping.
ZBBM
Well-known member
Well KWS, that was a few degrees over the boiling point but I share the same basic outlook. Burke hasn't delivered the goods yet and unless we overachieve like PHX did a couple of seasons ago we will probably end up with about a #5 pick next summer. With the new ownership in place, BB may not be here to choose it.
Bullfrog
Active member
KW Sluggo said:
You lost me at this point. I'm not sure what's so bizarre about not trading people around Christmas time. I think you've really misunderstood his point of view on offer sheets and this is the first I've heard of any opinion he has on protecting lottery picks.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
To fit in with the bluster, wouldn't it be "Real GMs DO lottery protect their picks"?
Kin
Active member
Bullfrog said:
Just looking at a couple years of trades doesn't make it look like trades are any more or less likely to be made then(although I confess I don't know enough about the specifics of when the freeze goes into effect) than they are during any other stretch of the regular season outside of around the deadline.
Still, it strikes me as the kind of thing that we'd hear about if another GM felt that way.
Mack674
New member
I dunno, I can respect his reasoning for that though. Millionaire spoiled athletes as they are, they still have families and moving people around the continent on christmas eve just feels like a douche thing to do nomatter who you are.
Unless his "trade freeze" window is a little on the long side, Im under the impression its only like the week before christmas he doesn't move anyone ? Or is it more like 3 weeks, which would be a bit much...
Unless his "trade freeze" window is a little on the long side, Im under the impression its only like the week before christmas he doesn't move anyone ? Or is it more like 3 weeks, which would be a bit much...
Bullfrog said:
Burke imposed a longer no trade period over Christmas than is mandated by NHL rules. The rules for the league should be good enough.
Second, when he was asked about whether the daft picks in the Kessel deal were lottery protected he said he did not do that type of thing.
Had they been lottery protected as they ought to have been our cost would have been much lower and a lot less embarrassing.
As for offer sheets, I quite understand Burke's view: he will not do them ostensibly because the other team usually matches and the process only makes the player richer and raises the salary standard for arbitration and UFAs.
While that is true, when you have few if any assets to trade and you need to make a large improvement in your team (as Burke did and still does) no tool should be excluded.
Further, in a salary cap league such as this, there are two variables in play: players and caps space. Judicious use of an offer sheet can force another team into salary allocation that it does not want or cannot afford. This prevents it from seeking UFAs and may spring other players loose from its roster.
Before the cap was in place, Burke's philosophy was okay but now he should leverage offer sheets (e.g., as he should have done in the Kessel situation where the Bruins knew that BB would not offer sheet them despite any overtures Burke may have made to the contrary).
Finally, an offer sheet or two no matter how futile they may ultimately prove in terms of acquiring the player in question, would at least create the illusion that Leaf management was trying to improve the roster.
We are under no such illusions at the present time.
Bullfrog
Active member
KW Sluggo said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I certainly don't remember him saying anything to that effect. I believe it was said in context to that particular deal. As in, the picks for Kessel were not lottery protected. If both, maybe even one, was lottery protected, I doubt Boston makes that deal. Kessel was worth it. (I won't get into an argument about whether or not it was the right deal at the right time.)
KW Sluggo said:
Why on earth would a GM make an offer sheet for the sole purpose of keeping up illusions of trying to improve the roster? Particularly when an offer sheet from Toronto will probably diminish the the quality of the roster. The GM's job isn't to pander to the fans because we're restless.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Mack674 said:
The NHL has one that is December 19-27, and Burke starts his 10 days earlier, so it is effectively 18 days.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Bullfrog said:
Yeah, so he should just offer sheet guys, even if no hope at all of landing them?
Here's a tip: Even when there's not news coming out every day about the team, you can just assume that every GM in the league is doing what they can to improve their roster. They'd be fired pretty quickly if they weren't working to improve their teams.
I love the idea that keeps getting thrown around that because Burke hasn't signed or traded anyone since signing McClement that he's been just sitting around on his porch or something. It's only been a month since then and he's pulled off one of the more significant moves of the off-season already with the JVR deal at the draft.