Jets @ Leafs - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[bustaheims]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

At worst he didn't time it properly, he still left a pretty wide lane to get a pass through to Burmi. But like I said, it was a 2-on-1 with a crossover that all happened in a matter of seconds, that's basically an impossible play to defend. The fact that his timing to nullify the lpay was off by maybe just a second is actually impressive.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

After a night where he went 33.33%, Byron Froese now has the 8th worst CF% among all forwards in the league. He's at 38.5% on the season, Spaling (42%) and Winnik (44%) are the only 2 forwards close to him. But at least they're playing against the opposing teams top lines every night, not other 4th liners.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

After a night where he went 33.33%, Byron Froese now has the 8th worst CF% among all forwards in the league. He's at 38.5% on the season, Spaling (42%) and Winnik (44%) are the only 2 forwards close to him. But at least they're playing against the opposing teams top lines every night, not other 4th liners.

I'd need to double-check, but I think Bozak is falling back towards his usual numbers too. Kadri is the only center driving possession.

Also, last night when talking about the Leafs being a better faceoff team this season, they went through every center on the team apart from Kadri, who has arguably been most improved, this is his first year over 50% on the draw.

Just one note, Kadri ate Columbus(74%), Montreal(65%) and Dallas(67%) alive on the draw, although he had three stinkers against Arizona(32%), Buffalo(33%) and Ottawa(29%), let's hope he can become a bit more consistent.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

After a night where he went 33.33%, Byron Froese now has the 8th worst CF% among all forwards in the league. He's at 38.5% on the season, Spaling (42%) and Winnik (44%) are the only 2 forwards close to him. But at least they're playing against the opposing teams top lines every night, not other 4th liners.

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

Yeah, good call, he has the worst zone-start ratio among Leafs forwards. And once again followed by Spaling and Winnik.

Puckalytics has a 5-on-5 zone-start adjusted filter that removes the first 10 seconds of shift after a faceoff to try and account for poor or strong zone start numbers. Froese gets a bump like that but so do Spaling/Winnik so he's still dead last in that category.

 

[herman]

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

Yeah, good call, he has the worst zone-start ratio among Leafs forwards. And once again followed by Spaling and Winnik.

Puckalytics has a 5-on-5 zone-start adjusted filter that removes the first 10 seconds of shift after a faceoff to try and account for poor or strong zone start numbers. Froese gets a bump like that but so do Spaling/Winnik so he's still dead last in that category.

Still a small sample size at this point, I think. He saved a pretty good scoring chance with his backcheck to break up a 2-on-1. But if he were a better possession driver, the puck wouldn't be in our zone to begin with... so meh.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

Yeah, good call, he has the worst zone-start ratio among Leafs forwards. And once again followed by Spaling and Winnik.

Puckalytics has a 5-on-5 zone-start adjusted filter that removes the first 10 seconds of shift after a faceoff to try and account for poor or strong zone start numbers. Froese gets a bump like that but so do Spaling/Winnik so he's still dead last in that category.

Still a small sample size at this point, I think. He saved a pretty good scoring chance with his backcheck to break up a 2-on-1. But if he were a better possession driver, the puck wouldn't be in our zone to begin with... so meh.

Just so we're clear, that's a joke...right?

 

[Crucialness Key]

After a night where he went 33.33%, Byron Froese now has the 8th worst CF% among all forwards in the league. He's at 38.5% on the season, Spaling (42%) and Winnik (44%) are the only 2 forwards close to him. But at least they're playing against the opposing teams top lines every night, not other 4th liners.

Dang, I want Froese to be good.  Granted, mostly for underdog-hero-story emotional-type reasons, but still.

 

[herman]

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

Yeah, good call, he has the worst zone-start ratio among Leafs forwards. And once again followed by Spaling and Winnik.

Puckalytics has a 5-on-5 zone-start adjusted filter that removes the first 10 seconds of shift after a faceoff to try and account for poor or strong zone start numbers. Froese gets a bump like that but so do Spaling/Winnik so he's still dead last in that category.

Still a small sample size at this point, I think. He saved a pretty good scoring chance with his backcheck to break up a 2-on-1. But if he were a better possession driver, the puck wouldn't be in our zone to begin with... so meh.

Just so we're clear, that's a joke...right?

Yes.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What are Froese's zone starts like?  Just a guess but I feel like he's getting a ton of starts in the Leafs' end.

Yeah, good call, he has the worst zone-start ratio among Leafs forwards. And once again followed by Spaling and Winnik.

Puckalytics has a 5-on-5 zone-start adjusted filter that removes the first 10 seconds of shift after a faceoff to try and account for poor or strong zone start numbers. Froese gets a bump like that but so do Spaling/Winnik so he's still dead last in that category.

Still a small sample size at this point, I think. He saved a pretty good scoring chance with his backcheck to break up a 2-on-1. But if he were a better possession driver, the puck wouldn't be in our zone to begin with... so meh.

Just so we're clear, that's a joke...right?

Yes.

*lowers pitchfork*

...

*regrets purchasing wildly impractical pitchfork*

 

[TML fan]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

It was a tough play, but he played it poorly.

Except all the coaches that preach shot blocking, which is essentially what Gardiner was attempting to do.

Shot blocking doesn't always entail leaving your feet. In fact I'd wager most coaches who preach shot blocking don't want you to leave your feet.

 

[TML fan]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

The fact that defencemen drop to the ice often doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's what happens when you panic. These guys are pros but it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

One of the potential ways to defend a 2 on 1 is to block the pass and leave the shooter with a shot only.  One of the potential ways to block a pass is to lay out and take away the passing lane.

 

[Bender]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

The fact that defencemen drop to the ice often doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's what happens when you panic. These guys are pros but it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

I'm pretty sure Gardiner knows how to clear rebounds when the situation calls for it. This was not one of those situations.

 

[bustaheims]

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

The fact that defencemen drop to the ice often doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's what happens when you panic. These guys are pros but it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

No, they're taught specifically to take away the passing option so that the goalie doesn't have to move laterally and find the puck on another shooter's stick. The goal is to allow to goalie to focus on a specific play. Sometimes, that means making the player without the puck a bad option, and sometimes it means doing whatever you can to get in the way of the pass. It all depends on where they are in relation to where you are, the speed of the play, etc. Gardiner made the right call. He just failed to execute effectively.

They're not taught to worry about rebounds on a two on one, nor are they taught to rely on the skates and stick to block a pass - in fact, doing so often leads to them deflecting the puck into their own net. Their priority is the minimize the quality of the scoring chance, and to turn the two on one into a one on one between the shooter and the goalie.

 

[louisstamos]

It's almost as if we've all had different coaches teaching different methods on hockey growing up.

 

[TML fan]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

One of the potential ways to defend a 2 on 1 is to block the pass and leave the shooter with a shot only.  One of the potential ways to block a pass is to lay out and take away the passing lane.

It is a potential way, yes. It is not a preferred way. You lose control when you are not on your skates. Laying out is a desperation, hope-and-pray method for blocking a pass. As we saw on the play, Wheeler simply went around Gardiner who was completely out of the play and completely unable to defend against Wheeler's move.

I'm not saying it would have worked. I'm saying it didn't have a chance to work. If Gardiner pivots and gets his stick down he might block the pass. Then again, he might not. That's not the point. There's a right way to play defence and a wrong way to play defence. Taking control away from yourself is the wrong way to play defence.

 

[TML fan]

No it's not. No coach worth his/her salt at any level will ever tell you to leave your feet. The moment you leave your feet you take yourself out of the play.

And, yet, defencemen have been doing exactly that on 2 on 1s for generations. What defencemen are taught to do in that situation is to take away the pass and allow the goalie to focus on the shooter. Gardiner attempted to do that in the same ways hundreds of defencemen have in the past. More often than not, that move successfully removes the passing option. This time it didn't. It wasn't a bad play, nor did he play it poorly. It just didn't work out for him.

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

The fact that defencemen drop to the ice often doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's what happens when you panic. These guys are pros but it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

I'm pretty sure Gardiner knows how to clear rebounds when the situation calls for it. This was not one of those situations.

What if they didn't score on the original shot? What's Gardiner going to do laying on his butt?

 

[TML fan]

Defencemen are taught to use their stick and skates to block the pass. They are also taught to take either the shooter or the open man, not just to block the pass. They are also taught to be ready to clear rebounds, which is pretty impossible to do laying on your face.

The fact that defencemen drop to the ice often doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's what happens when you panic. These guys are pros but it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.

No, they're taught specifically to take away the passing option so that the goalie doesn't have to move laterally and find the puck on another shooter's stick. The goal is to allow to goalie to focus on a specific play. Sometimes, that means making the player without the puck a bad option, and sometimes it means doing whatever you can to get in the way of the pass. It all depends on where they are in relation to where you are, the speed of the play, etc. Gardiner made the right call. He just failed to execute effectively.

They're not taught to worry about rebounds on a two on one, nor are they taught to rely on the skates and stick to block a pass - in fact, doing so often leads to them deflecting the puck into their own net. Their priority is the minimize the quality of the scoring chance, and to turn the two on one into a one on one between the shooter and the goalie.

No they're not. If what you say is true, then why wouldn't the defenceman automatically attack the puck carrier or the open man? In that case, staying in the middle would be the least desirable of the three options.

Defenceman are absolutely taught to worry about rebounds in all situations! That's their job! The shooter doesn't always score on the first shot. You'd look pretty foolish trying to get up off the ice while the shooter gets 2 or 3 whacks at a loose puck.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using your skates or your stick to try and block a pass. What is the difference if you block it with your stick or your body? Who's to say you don't end up sliding into your own net with the puck under you? The difference between the two plays is that you have control of the situation while you are on your feet. You can react, maybe giving yourself a second chance if the puck carrier makes a move. What if he slid later and Wheeler stopped up? Now Gardiner is in the corner and it's a 2-on-0. If he's on his feet he can react to any move made. Maybe he's not successful, but as I've said many times that is not the point. When you drop down you are only giving yourself one chance to defend against a play that has many possible routes.