I don’t agree with this at all. Phaneuf was what he was when he came to the leafs. That’s how the leafs got him for practically nothing. This has absolutely nothing to do with him getting the captaincy.
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Jets vs. Maple Leafs - Oct. 28th, 7:30pm - Prime, Fan 590
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
bustaheims
Well-known member
Yeah. Phaneuf's game didn't change. He was already regressing. Matthews' hasn't really, either - he's still getting good chances and shots on net. He's just not finding holes right now. The dam will burst at some point and he'll go off on some crazy run.
He might be feeling a little more pressure, sure, and he's made a few more defensive mistakes than we're used to, but I suspect that's more to do with adjusting to the new coaching staff, system, etc., than the captaincy.
L K
Well-known member
The effort losses (Columbus, St. Louis) are inexcusable but a lot of the smaller blips where defensive breakdowns or the offense struggles can be explained by a new coach with a new system. This is a playoff team. We can't keep evaluating the team on how good of a regular season performer it is. This is the era of playoff success or bust. The changes in style of play are going to have growing pains right now.
We can start to judge how the team is performing maybe around Christmas when they have a better grasp of Berube's systems.
I don't need this team to win the division. I don't need to see this team put up 110 points. They just need to get into the playoffs with a style of play that doesn't get outscored 27-11 in their 8 elimination losses since 2016.
We can start to judge how the team is performing maybe around Christmas when they have a better grasp of Berube's systems.
I don't need this team to win the division. I don't need to see this team put up 110 points. They just need to get into the playoffs with a style of play that doesn't get outscored 27-11 in their 8 elimination losses since 2016.
Ozzie
Member
The issue with Matthews is the issue with PP1 and the issue with this team. Marner brings down the entire vibe and turns Matthews into an apathetic player. When Marner has been sidelined.... that's when Matthews production kicks in and when he's playing with animals like Domi and Knies you see new spirit emerge.
Same issue with Tavares tbh.
We all know it. But Ownership will never take the risk of moving on so we just have changes around the edges. Two positive changes this season:
1. Stolarz is sick!
2. Under Berube we already have 2 very well executed games in Tampa and Winnipeg.... we didn't see that under Keefe so quickly.
Letting Marner walk (combined with significant reduction in play for Tavares) will unleash the beast in this team.
Same issue with Tavares tbh.
We all know it. But Ownership will never take the risk of moving on so we just have changes around the edges. Two positive changes this season:
1. Stolarz is sick!
2. Under Berube we already have 2 very well executed games in Tampa and Winnipeg.... we didn't see that under Keefe so quickly.
Letting Marner walk (combined with significant reduction in play for Tavares) will unleash the beast in this team.
Winning cures all, a good playoff he stays, bad he goes.
Ozzie
Member
8 out of 8 bad playoffs, plus losing, so far.
He's still here.
If half a career doesn't tell us everything we need to know about a player and a roster....... one extra season won't either.
The contract is expiring and I have a hard time believing he gets traded or resigns during the season. I believe it will be an early exit again and he the Leafs don't resign him. Hope I am wrong but like you said 8 of 8, why would expect anything else?
I mean Auston's been here the same amount of time...
Ozzie
Member
Yes but Matthews has shown flashes of brilliance in the playoffs.
Nylander has been their most consistent playoff performer. Reilly has had series where he carried the entire team (but less consistent than Nylander).
Marner has pretty much been a dud every playoffs.
It would be sweet if we could trade Marner and get something for him..... but that ship sailed with management inaction and poorly negotiated contracts.
Sorry to say this but Dubas/Shanahan f@cked up the very best draft luck this franchise ever had. The talent is incredible! But the architecture is a Dubas fantasy, that turns into a nightmare when it comes to games that matter (even with the Pens).
I agree with Cabber24..... probably nothing will be done with Marner and he will be off the books after another 1st round exit in April.
But the regular season is beautiful to watch! I like this season and last season better than the prior seasons in terms of grit and heart and structured hockey.
To be completely honest they've all underperformed their contracts in the playoffs. None of them have gone off like a Mackinnon, Draisaitl, McDavid etc. I do think Marner especially looks like he wilts under pressure but there's plenty of blame to go around for their playoff losses.
None of the "core 4" on offense have ever given me the impression that they have that little bit of "extra" that is needed to win in the playoffs. They rarely engage physically (but they'll sure whine to the refs), almost never initiate physical play, don't look like they are willing to lay it all on the line to win. They show little to no emotion - except when they score. Otherwise it's all just quiet and glum faces. Very inspiring stuff for the rest of the team to look up to.
I still picture Matthews being tossed around by that guy on Montreal I think, and laughing and looking at the ref. Also remember the Stamkos "fight". He was so reluctant to engage. Afterwards for a brief second I thought maybe that'll get him going. Ha!
They can bring in all the "character" they want for the bottom 6 but it's up to those top guys to decide that they are all in.
I still picture Matthews being tossed around by that guy on Montreal I think, and laughing and looking at the ref. Also remember the Stamkos "fight". He was so reluctant to engage. Afterwards for a brief second I thought maybe that'll get him going. Ha!
They can bring in all the "character" they want for the bottom 6 but it's up to those top guys to decide that they are all in.
Ozzie
Member
I agree with all of you....Chris, Cabber24 and Bender. They all under performed. And Matthews let's himself get ragdolled by other elite players which is lame.
But if im going to pick one or two of the Core players for representing.....
1. Rielly when he got beaten up by Tampa and had his nose busted and he scores the winner in OT with a bloody rag hanging from his nose. That was 1970s Sittler Salming Tiger Williams Leafs right there and we should give props where props is due. That entire series Rielly was amazing.
2. Nylander has scored a number of clutch goals in the playoffs. Including Game 6 and 7 against Bruins in 2024 where he got 100% of Leaf goals in the last 2 games. And when he was criticized for avoiding physicality in the corner in a prior disappointing season.... the guy beefed up and improved that aspect of his game. Let's give the guy credit.
And in addition to the memory of Marner throwing his gloves like a suck......... there is also where Tkachuk is former team mate bitch slaps him on national TV and the best Marner can do is stick out his tongue. That's way more lame than Matthews letting himself get beaten up.
If Marner grew up in my neighborhood a guy like that would likely get beaten up a few times.
But if im going to pick one or two of the Core players for representing.....
1. Rielly when he got beaten up by Tampa and had his nose busted and he scores the winner in OT with a bloody rag hanging from his nose. That was 1970s Sittler Salming Tiger Williams Leafs right there and we should give props where props is due. That entire series Rielly was amazing.
2. Nylander has scored a number of clutch goals in the playoffs. Including Game 6 and 7 against Bruins in 2024 where he got 100% of Leaf goals in the last 2 games. And when he was criticized for avoiding physicality in the corner in a prior disappointing season.... the guy beefed up and improved that aspect of his game. Let's give the guy credit.
And in addition to the memory of Marner throwing his gloves like a suck......... there is also where Tkachuk is former team mate bitch slaps him on national TV and the best Marner can do is stick out his tongue. That's way more lame than Matthews letting himself get beaten up.
If Marner grew up in my neighborhood a guy like that would likely get beaten up a few times.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
He's like that "Hot Dog" kid at the local outdoor rink. Would dispsy doodle around everyone and score lots. Soon has you lay a finger on him he runs home and gets his dad.
Ozzie
Member
LoL.... exactly. Plus throws his gloves down and takes his net home so no one else can play
OldTimeHockey
Active member
What a ridiculous conversation the last 5 or 6 posts has been.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Definitely.
Get back to us when they win more than a playoff round.
Ozzie
Member
It's been the convo for the past 5 years. It's only ridiculous because management hasn't taken action on it. Like Chris said "get back to us when they win more than a playoff round"