Kadri and Franson Contract Updates

[mr grieves]

Morning chaps. Earlier in the summer I was reading a fair few comments from people saying it wouldn't be difficult finding a taker for Lilles with a decent return. Is trading him and re-signing Franson still a possible a solution or do we ideally want to keep both?

You have to find a willing trade partner to take Liles.  Easy to say "trade him" but is there a team that wants him and will take on his $3.8M salary?

Probably not - but would someone be willing to take him at $1.9 or $2.0 if we retain part of his cap hit?  That is a bit more appealing...

I still don't see why that would be necessary. Liles is a really good offensive defenseman who's had a bad run of injuries/being on a team where there are other good offensive defensemen competing for PP time. Liles has a body of work beyond last year.

But that's true of several players we can think of who were bought out, are on tryouts, or in Europe.

 

[Kin]

But that's true of several players we can think of who were bought out, are on tryouts, or in Europe.

Maybe, but the one thing that can be said for Liles that isn't really true of most of them is that the contract he's signed to could actually be a very good value contract. He doesn't have to set the world on fire as an offensive defenseman for 3.8 million to be a really good investment for a team that needs PP help.

 

[gunnar36]

Morning chaps. Earlier in the summer I was reading a fair few comments from people saying it wouldn't be difficult finding a taker for Lilles with a decent return. Is trading him and re-signing Franson still a possible a solution or do we ideally want to keep both?

You have to find a willing trade partner to take Liles.  Easy to say "trade him" but is there a team that wants him and will take on his $3.8M salary?

Probably not - but would someone be willing to take him at $1.9 or $2.0 if we retain part of his cap hit?  That is a bit more appealing...

I still don't see why that would be necessary. Liles is a really good offensive defenseman who's had a bad run of injuries/being on a team where there are other good offensive defensemen competing for PP time. Liles has a body of work beyond last year.

True, but I stand by my original point considering only 7 teams in the league have enough cap space to take on Liles at the full value of his contract at the moment...

Now, this coming off-season when the cap goes up?  Might be a tad easier...

You're right....the only way they find a trade partner this time of year is to take a comparable salary in return or retain some of his salary.
I think a sensible approach would be to hold onto Liles until the trade deadline at which point a pro rated salary is much easier to absorb under the cap for prospective trade partners.  Many contending teams with a weak PP in search of a puck moving dman would give up at least a 2nd rounder for him.

 

[princedpw]

Well, I'm with "Jolly good show chaps."  Basically, since the Clarkson/Bozak/Bernier/Grabbo buyout-transaction, the cap math didn't compute on Liles/Gunnar/Kadri/Franson.  And with cap deflation, excess UFAs, and a number of other teams in cap hell, getting rid of Liles without paying a penalty looked tough.  But some people have continued to push for patience suggesting Nonis knows a way out of the jam.  I'm still patient.  May be the way out is to offer Franson 2 million now so he'll hold out and he's off the books until midseason when we'll have stocked up some room ...

 

[Deebo]

I'm patient because I don't see Franson as being that important. He'd be nice to have, but I don't think the Leafs season record will be that greatly impacted if he isn't on the team.

 

[iwas11in67]

According to today's Toronto Sun, the Leafs offered a 2 year deal worth around $3 mil per.

 

[hockeyfan1]

According to today's Toronto Sun, the Leafs offered a 2 year deal worth around $3 mil per.

Very fair deal offer.  Cody Franson, where are you?

 

[Redleaf]

According to today's Toronto Sun, the Leafs offered a 2 year deal worth around $3 mil per.

Very fair deal offer.  Cody Franson, where are you?

Apparently Franson is sticking to his guns that he wants a one year deal only. The thinking is he can cash in next year when the cap goes up.

 

[hockeyfan1]

According to today's Toronto Sun, the Leafs offered a 2 year deal worth around $3 mil per.

Very fair deal offer.  Cody Franson, where are you?

Apparently Franson is sticking to his guns that he wants a one year deal only. The thinking is he can cash in next year when the cap goes up.

Ah, I see. Smart thinking on Franson's part.  This may also indicate that he doesn't dread the possibility of being traded at the deadline, if it should come to that.  Wonder how much he covets being a Leaf?

 

[Peter D.]

Apparently Franson is sticking to his guns that he wants a one year deal only. The thinking is he can cash in next year when the cap goes up.

A 2-year deal also takes him to UFA, at which time he could cash in as well.  And that would allow him to get away from the Leafs, a team that has given him a lot of tough love since he's been here.  He's always been a huge Leaf fan however, so his desire to stay could be commended I suppose. 

 

[TML fan]

He's probably looking for a 4 or 5 year deal down the road, and feeling confident he can repeat last year's success. He's probably weary of a 2 year deal in case he falters in the 2nd year.

Ultimately though, I don't think Franson is worth keeping. His defensive game is really lacking, and he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay. I imagine he's feeling the heat from players like Gardiner and Rielly who may eventually take powerplay time away from him, and that's his bread and butter.

If he has any value around the league, the time to trade him is now.

 

[Corn Flake]

According to today's Toronto Sun, the Leafs offered a 2 year deal worth around $3 mil per.

Very fair deal offer.  Cody Franson, where are you?

Apparently Franson is sticking to his guns that he wants a one year deal only. The thinking is he can cash in next year when the cap goes up.

Ah, I see. Smart thinking on Franson's part.  This may also indicate that he doesn't dread the possibility of being traded at the deadline, if it should come to that.  Wonder how much he covets being a Leaf?

Not smart in the sense that the Leafs have a lot of solid candidates to replace him, so the season starts and they have his job filled, what's he leaning on as far as motivation for Toronto to sign him?  sure, Franson is probably better than the replacements but Ranger is looking very good, and although he lacks the right hand shot, I think he can fill the void quite admirably in the short term.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay.

That's just not true.

12-13: 16 ES pts, 13 PP pts
11-12: 14 ESP, 7 PPP

 

[princedpw]

I'm patient because I don't see Franson as being that important. He'd be nice to have, but I don't think the Leafs season record will be that greatly impacted if he isn't on the team.

In order to make progress towards being a contender, the Leafs need to improve their talent level at key positions and their low-cost depth to fill in for injuries or simply to dominate the back-end of the other teams lineups (like Kadri did last year).

Franson is a player that may be slightly redundant for the Leafs (Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles, Reilly) but he has scored at one of the highest rates in the league for a defenseman.  That's a valuable commodity.  If the leafs squander that commodity by getting less back in a trade than they could otherwise due to a cap crunch, they will be taking a step in the wrong direction.  That's what I worry about.  If Franson gets traded for a high pick or stellar prospect that can't necessary play this year, I'm fine with it.  I care less about this year than setting ourselves up for the future (though that's going to be hard with the Bozak and Clarkson albatross deals waiting to explode).

 

[TML fan]

he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay.

That's just not true.

12-13: 16 ES pts, 13 PP pts
11-12: 14 ESP, 7 PPP

Ok, so roughly half of his points. It still illustrates that a lot of his value is on the power play.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay.

That's just not true.

12-13: 16 ES pts, 13 PP pts
11-12: 14 ESP, 7 PPP

Ok, so roughly half of his points. It still illustrates that a lot of his value is on the power play.

But I don't get why you're illustrating that as a negative.  That seems to be the common theme with almost all of the offensive-oriented d-men:  http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132ALLDADALL&sort=points&viewName=points

His % of points on the PP doesn't seem to be out of line with others.

 

[louisstamos]

he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay.

That's just not true.

12-13: 16 ES pts, 13 PP pts
11-12: 14 ESP, 7 PPP

Ok, so roughly half of his points. It still illustrates that a lot of his value is on the power play.

I'd say his value is more so in moving the puck and generating offense, both at even strength and the PP.

Just because he's not a shutdown guy doesn't mean he's completely useless.

 

[Tigger]

he produces the majority of his points on the powerplay.

That's just not true.

12-13: 16 ES pts, 13 PP pts
11-12: 14 ESP, 7 PPP

Ok, so roughly half of his points. It still illustrates that a lot of his value is on the power play.

I've mentioned this before, it's been a common perception about Cody since his days in Nashville but it's just not true...

10-11 23 esp 6 ppp
09-10 15 esp 6 ppp

 

[TML fan]

Well, maybe he's a better player than I thought.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Well, maybe he's a better player than I thought.

I think he's a good player, but I also think he'll be hard pressed to produce offensively like he did last season unless he's given a big bump in minutes.

This has a good breakdown of why he'll have trouble reproducing those numbers:

As far as it goes, I think he's overrated offensively because his 1.46 points per 60 last season is just not a rate sustained by human defencemen. His on-ice shooting percentage of 13.61% was a ways higher than his career rate of 9.26% at that point. He has had some offensively ability in the past but it's been inconsistent between seasons and I doubt he's elite offensively.


That said, he's defensively quite underrated in my mind. Over his four-year career, opponents have averaged 0.741 goals per 20 minutes, but that's just 0.688 against Franson. Seeing as he played two seasons during Nashville's peak as a defensive team and two seasons with the defensively inept Toronto Maple Leafs, I think some things average out. His teammates allowed 0.780 goals against per 20 minutes with him not on the ice so I'd like to think that Franson generally improves his team's defensive fortunes, although that said, Franson has gotten some pretty easy minutes. The 0.741 goals per 20 minutes is 180th out of 186 qualified defencemen over the last four seasons.

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/7/29/ruminating-on-cody-fransons-future

I do think he's a solid player to have and improves the overall D though, so I'd prefer to keep him than not.