Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home

[Tigger]

There was also a note ( which I can't find now ) about overhearing Burke blast him behind closed doors when he was young. I never agreed with Cherry's assessment, still don't ( not the greatest bellwether, anywho ). The issues with Kadri along the way aren't a direct indicator that Nazem will be a problem contractually or performance wise down the road.

As far as Phaneuf and Kessel go, fortunately the Leafs can be patient for a year at least, more so with Kessel's contract. If any contract dollars are retained, it'll be for Phaneuf, but I'm not convinced they can't make a hockey trade without that for either of them.

In Wilson's defence, he didn't entirely throw Kadri under the bus in that clip, he said he's improved physically too, which I agree with and to me he's vastly improved his issues with blueline turnovers as well. What was Kadri, 21 when he was fired?

Hopefully Hunter can be an influence here.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

"...if we had drawn a hard line with him and sent him down to the minors and made an example of him early on in his career..."

This was something that caught my ear when I heard it. Kadri played 29 and then 21 NHL games in his first two seasons under Wilson. In his first season he was cut from training camp, called up in November, sent back down in January after 17 games, and then called back up in March after the deadline.

Season 2, it looked like he might make the team out of camp but injured his knee late in preseason. He played in 3 NHL games in late October after he recovered before being sent to the AHL. Stayed there until late December when he was called up and played 16 games before again being sent back down. Then he was called up for a pair of games late in the season.

The team did take a pretty tough approach towards Kadri when Wilson was his coach. That's actually something I remember a lot of people complained about. So if Wilson can't even properly describe how the team handled him I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the other things he says. He's clearly on TV because he has an axe to grind and saying these things makes for good ratings.

 

[TML fan]

If I didn't know how Leaf fans are (and know that they know as well), I'd think the media WANTS to alienate its primary audience.

 

[rdowdall]

Right now, in my opinion (and in the opinion of others), the only way Kessel and Phaneuf (for example) return anything in terms of notable talent is if they eat dollars off their contracts. Often, a rebuild gets jump started by flipping the older talent into younger prospects. These contracts constrain that from happening as well as it might have.

I agree that they won't get much for Phanuef and Kessel, I think that by moving them out and making a clean break, that will provide the Leafs with talent through them finishing at or near the bottom of the league the next couple of years.  The key for the Leafs is that they need to correctly identify the pieces that are going help them going forward, and moving out everything else for whatever they can get.  Pieces like JVR, Kadri, Gardiner, Komarov, Holland, Panik, and Reilly need to be evaluated to see if they fit with the plan going forward.   

The likely effect is it will lengthen the time it will take the Leafs to recover from this mess. It's depressing. We've stepped into multiple piles of crap and some of it is going to stick to our shoes for some time to come.

I agree that this is a mess because they shouldn't be in this position after 10 years of being a pitiful team. 

However, I don't think they are in as bad of shape as they were when they came out of the JFJ years.  At least they have drafted in the first round the last couple of years.  That always help.  I agree that it would help more if they had some 2nd round picks to go along with those, but hey baby steps.  They have some guys on the farm that look like they will be legitimate NHL'ers in Finn, Leivo, Brown, Nylander, Percy, Loov, and maybe even guys like Granberg and McKegg.


They need elite level talent that can make a difference in a game, and the only place to get that reliably is at the start of the draft as many have noted and lamented over the last couple of years.  Hopefully they can get that talent over the next couple of years.  I mean the thing that most Leaf fans should be thankful for is they finally have a plan that doesn't seem to be contingent on them either fleecing someone in a trade or finding a diamond in the rough in the draft in the late rounds.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

There is limited players available.  Some of these Leafs might not be first choice, but they might be some teams ONLY choice if they want above average players.

This is what I'm hoping for.  Good players just don't come available, or relatively few, since teams generally sign them to long-term contracts.  Seeing players like Kessel and Phaneuf become available, like them or hate them, doesn't happen very often, and I'm sure there will be teams that snap them up.  I just hope that Nonis/Shanahan don't play hardball to the point where they don't move them, rather than can't move them.  Cut bait, get what you can, and move on.

 

[cw]

Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

"...if we had drawn a hard line with him and sent him down to the minors and made an example of him early on in his career..."

This was something that caught my ear when I heard it. Kadri played 29 and then 21 NHL games in his first two seasons under Wilson. In his first season he was cut from training camp, called up in November, sent back down in January after 17 games, and then called back up in March after the deadline.

Season 2, it looked like he might make the team out of camp but injured his knee late in preseason. He played in 3 NHL games in late October after he recovered before being sent to the AHL. Stayed there until late December when he was called up and played 16 games before again being sent back down. Then he was called up for a pair of games late in the season.

The team did take a pretty tough approach towards Kadri when Wilson was his coach. That's actually something I remember a lot of people complained about. So if Wilson can't even properly describe how the team handled him I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the other things he says. He's clearly on TV because he has an axe to grind and saying these things makes for good ratings.

Fair points made on Wilson.

Upon reflection, Burke, Nonis, Eakins, Wilson, Carlyle, Horachek & Shanahan have all criticized Kadri over the years and I don't recall a good case being made that it wasn't accurate criticism.

I realize Don Cherry's position but there is a case to be made that they were not getting through otherwise ... criticism via the media is often one of the last resorts.

 

[Rebel_1812]

The bigger issue with wilson is how he lasted so long as the coach if he had issues with many of his players.

They say 1/3 of the players like the coach (often because the coach likes them and they've benefited from that with more ice time), 1/3 of the players don't like the coach (often because the coach doesn't like them as much and they've suffered from that with less ice time) and 1/3 are on the fence ... with the coach in his early seasons trending towards against him in later seasons if they don't keep winning.

So Wilson, like many NHL coaches, was going to have problems with a number of his players. That alone doesn't disqualify him from doing an ok job. I wasn't a big fan of his nor did I hate him.

In spite of Don Cherry, Kadri had issues with his game and professionalism. Eakins noted them. Wilson noted them. So did Carlyle. Now Horachek and Shanahan. I have some respect for all of those guys and it's very unlikely they're all wrong.

I did hate wilson and think he is by far the worse coach the leafs have had since the 80s.  Your right some players will like you and some will not.  You don't want to have issues with your best player in kessel and your player of the future in kadri.  You better have a good relationship with the best players else your team will not perform well; which they didn't.

 

[Bender]

Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

Coach?s Corner: Nazem Kadri will leave in two years
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/coachs-corner-nazem-kadri-will-leave-two-years/

This is going to be a painful process ...

Ron Wilson really needs to go away.  I don't really care for the guys who come out of the woodwork an start retroactively backtalking.  Much less a guy who openly admits an axe to grind and references a 49 game stint with the Leafs on his proof that Nazem didn't listen to him.  Wilson's a blowhard.  I don't care for Cherry in the least because he rarely makes sense and is usually wrong when you can understand what he says, but his constant "I don't kick things when they are down" (spoiler alert, he does) would be some good advice for some of the idiots running the broadcast  and sports media.  Where was Wilson before the collapse.  Coming out after the fact, openly admitting a bias and then spouting off stuff in a vague enough way to be impossible to dispute but also not providing anything concrete is useless click-baiting. 

I've lost interest in the Leafs and it took a hell of a lot to get me to that point.  But I lost interest in the Toronto sports media long before that.  Adding more of this useless garbage only pushes me farther away from that.  I have been cable free for a few years now and use NHL Gamecenter with a US account to watch Leafs games.  I don't watch TSN.  I don't go to their website anymore, I'm completely done with the shoddy "journalism" around the Leafs. 

I'm happy to read blogs and catch the stories through those and the message board but I'm just tired of not only real negativity but contrived stories to keep people who have long since become irrelevant in the sporting world relevant.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/3/14/8214559/in-defence-of-nazem-kadri

That and they offer no nuanced analysis. Omg Calgary is in the playoffs but not the Leafs therefore Calgary is a good team! Except there are tons of issues in their despite being in the playoffs. I read somewhere that they are basically the Colorado of this year based on shooting percentages.

Furthermore, Im reminded of Larionovs article recently about how coaches are asking for the simple play. Sometimes you need to allow players to be creative and let them thrive that way.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

"...if we had drawn a hard line with him and sent him down to the minors and made an example of him early on in his career..."

This was something that caught my ear when I heard it. Kadri played 29 and then 21 NHL games in his first two seasons under Wilson. In his first season he was cut from training camp, called up in November, sent back down in January after 17 games, and then called back up in March after the deadline.

Season 2, it looked like he might make the team out of camp but injured his knee late in preseason. He played in 3 NHL games in late October after he recovered before being sent to the AHL. Stayed there until late December when he was called up and played 16 games before again being sent back down. Then he was called up for a pair of games late in the season.

The team did take a pretty tough approach towards Kadri when Wilson was his coach. That's actually something I remember a lot of people complained about. So if Wilson can't even properly describe how the team handled him I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the other things he says. He's clearly on TV because he has an axe to grind and saying these things makes for good ratings.

Fair points made on Wilson.

Upon reflection, Burke, Nonis, Eakins, Wilson, Carlyle, Horachek & Shanahan have all criticized Kadri over the years and I don't recall a good case being made that it wasn't accurate criticism.

I realize Don Cherry's position but there is a case to be made that they were not getting through otherwise ... criticism via the media is often one of the last resorts.

Gary Roberts was on a show last week (TSN?), and was discussing the Kadri situation a bit.  He brought up Kadri coming to him a few summers ago to get in shape, which is the season he was criticized by Eakins for coming to camp with terrible body fat composition.  His tone was interesting, along the lines of he came once and I never heard from him again. 

Kadri strikes me as a guy who is being pulled in all different directions, and is a bit confused about what he actually needs to do.  I wonder if a guy like Shanahan, someone who as a player would have probably been a good role model,  might be able to get through to him.

 

[Al14]

Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

"...if we had drawn a hard line with him and sent him down to the minors and made an example of him early on in his career..."

This was something that caught my ear when I heard it. Kadri played 29 and then 21 NHL games in his first two seasons under Wilson. In his first season he was cut from training camp, called up in November, sent back down in January after 17 games, and then called back up in March after the deadline.

Season 2, it looked like he might make the team out of camp but injured his knee late in preseason. He played in 3 NHL games in late October after he recovered before being sent to the AHL. Stayed there until late December when he was called up and played 16 games before again being sent back down. Then he was called up for a pair of games late in the season.

The team did take a pretty tough approach towards Kadri when Wilson was his coach. That's actually something I remember a lot of people complained about. So if Wilson can't even properly describe how the team handled him I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the other things he says. He's clearly on TV because he has an axe to grind and saying these things makes for good ratings.

Fair points made on Wilson.

Upon reflection, Burke, Nonis, Eakins, Wilson, Carlyle, Horachek & Shanahan have all criticized Kadri over the years and I don't recall a good case being made that it wasn't accurate criticism.

I realize Don Cherry's position but there is a case to be made that they were not getting through otherwise ... criticism via the media is often one of the last resorts.

Gary Roberts was on a show last week (TSN?), and was discussing the Kadri situation a bit.  He brought up Kadri coming to him a few summers ago to get in shape, which is the season he was criticized by Eakins for coming to camp with terrible body fat composition.  His tone was interesting, along the lines of he came once and I never heard from him again. 

Kadri strikes me as a guy who is being pulled in all different directions, and is a bit confused about what he actually needs to do.  I wonder if a guy like Shanahan, someone who as a player would have probably been a good role model,  might be able to get through to him.

If Shanahan can't get through to Kadri, then, I'm afraid no one can! 

Kadri had the chance to work with Gary Roberts, and, by the sounds of it, he didn't like the work ethic Roberts promotes.

If being exposed to two great former hockey players can't motivate you to be your best, then, it may be time for the Leafs to trade Kadri for the best return possible.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

So Shanahan imposed a 3-game suspension on Kadri, taking him to task for not being professional.  Assuming he gets suspended by the league for a few games for last night's head shot, is this interpreted as more unprofessional behavior?  Or is it a non-factor since it was a hockey play?  Just wondering if Kadri gets himself into more trouble with this.

 

[rdowdall]

So Shanahan imposed a 3-game suspension on Kadri, taking him to task for not being professional.  Assuming he gets suspended by the league for a few games for last night's head shot, is this interpreted as more unprofessional behavior?  Or is it a non-factor since it was a hockey play?  Just wondering if Kadri gets himself into more trouble with this.

Probably a case of if the League suspends him, then that is punishment enough.  I don't think I have ever seen a team get there player in trouble for something like a suspect hit if the League chooses not to suspend the player.

 

[Chris]

So Shanahan imposed a 3-game suspension on Kadri, taking him to task for not being professional.  Assuming he gets suspended by the league for a few games for last night's head shot, is this interpreted as more unprofessional behavior?  Or is it a non-factor since it was a hockey play?  Just wondering if Kadri gets himself into more trouble with this.

Probably a case of if the League suspends him, then that is punishment enough.  I don't think I have ever seen a team get there player in trouble for something like a suspect hit if the League chooses not to suspend the player.

Hard to tell if there was intent to injure in that play, it was so fast. If the league suspends, fine, but I think at most a couple of games.

I think the team might have more of a problem with his tirade at the end of the game that netted a bunch of penalties.

 

[Al14]

So Shanahan imposed a 3-game suspension on Kadri, taking him to task for not being professional.  Assuming he gets suspended by the league for a few games for last night's head shot, is this interpreted as more unprofessional behavior?  Or is it a non-factor since it was a hockey play?  Just wondering if Kadri gets himself into more trouble with this.

Probably a case of if the League suspends him, then that is punishment enough.  I don't think I have ever seen a team get there player in trouble for something like a suspect hit if the League chooses not to suspend the player.

Hard to tell if there was intent to injure in that play, it was so fast. If the league suspends, fine, but I think at most a couple of games.

I think the team might have more of a problem with his tirade at the end of the game that netted a bunch of penalties.

I only saw the replay twice, however, from what I could tell, this was incidental contact IMHO.  I don't think it was intentional contact by Kadri.  His arms were down, however, it looked like his elbow did rise a bit in response to the contact.  Really unsure!

If Kadri gets anything, it'll be only a game or two.