Lack of Leadership

[Courtnall]

If it's true that Kessel went up to Phaneuf right after the game last night and pointed to the dressing room. How much of a negative impact is he having in the dressing room? Is his bad attitude contagious? I honestly can't wait for the day that the both of them get moved out and we head in a different direction. This direction is full of washouts, closed roads, and broken bridges.

So, not knowing anything that was said between them at any point about this or anything else, you've deduced that Kessel has a bad attitude and is having a negative impact in the room? For all we know, he was just confirming with Phaneuf that they weren't doing the salute thing and going straight to the room instead. Stop jumping to conclusions.

No I won't stop jumping to conclusions just because you said so.
You're right, he could have been confirming the salute thing which is kinda what I was saying. His bad attitude stems from the fact that he believes he's above everyone else and doesn't have to play defence carlyle's way. He also believes he's above everyone else and does not have to talk to reporters if he's mad. It's being stated loud and clear that players will be made available to the media.......unless your Kessel. But I'm just going to sit here and keep jumping to conclusions on a whim.

 

[Courtnall]

If it's true that Kessel went up to Phaneuf right after the game last night and pointed to the dressing room.

Whoa people think he pointed...to the dressing room!? Hold the phones, that's just incredible.  Can you believe if the rest of the team hears about this?  The fact he might have pointed his stick towards the dressing room is mind-boggling and super important to discuss.

On a related point, Stamkos probably can't wait to line up and sign in Toronto.  With in-depth analysis like which way his stick might point post-game, he'll have all the unwanted attention he can ask for.

So are you a douchebag in real life? Or just when you have a keyboard in front of you?

whoa  that's out of left field lee -bo.  Or is it normal for you to accuse random people of douchbaggary without cause?

Left field? Seriously? Belittling someone's opinion just because you disagree with it is 100% douchbaggary.

 

[moon111]

I remember real hockey fights, not the staged stuff.  You could see emotion, win or lose.  Certain fans didn't like it and now the only way to see emotion and leadership is to score and win.  Leafs lost some games... and it looked like they were out of it.  There's no way of knowing the team's emotion or leadership.  It's a product I no longer like.  Watch the highlights, the rest is a bore.  Some fans identify with the team.  They say things like 'we' won or 'we' lost... and hate saying 'we' didn't try.  But realize, the Leafs are their own entity.  Who cares if Kessel and the Leafs have nothing but contempt for you?  They're not family, friend, associates... they're nothing.  No relationship to you.  They sell a product, and you choose whether to buy or not. 

 

[sickbeast]

I think at the very least Kessel is a bit of an odd guy.  That being said, he is a special player and you take the good with the bad.  He rarely seems to smile and seems to take everything very seriously.  He definitely doesn't seem like a social type of player that his teammates are going to gravitate toward, nor does he seem like he offers any sort of leadership in the room.  Like I said though, he's probably the best winger in the league and you can't expect everything from your players, even if they are at an elite level.

I actually quite like Kessel and looking back I can somewhat live with the trade Burke made to get him.  I really think he's the least of our problems right now.  The Leafs problem is that they can't play defence.  It's not fair to blame Phaneuf either; he's by far not the worst player in terms of +/-.  Gardiner and Robidas have been the worst.  The biggest problem is that the Leafs don't even have a legitimate top defensive pairing; on any other team all their players would be way farther down on the depth chart and some would be playing in the AHL if at all.

 

[Andy007]

Thought this was a pretty good read over at yahoo sports:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/maple-leafs-are-mess-no-one-s-sure-how-to-clean-up--trending-topics-064547341.html

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Thought this was a pretty good read over at yahoo sports:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/maple-leafs-are-mess-no-one-s-sure-how-to-clean-up--trending-topics-064547341.html

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

I'd go as far as saying that is the best article I've seen in a decade, it absolutely nails what ails this team.

 

[sickbeast]

It was interesting to see Phaneuf repeatedly dodging the question as to how the lack of a "salute" was going to help the team.  They asked him several times and he repeatedly refused to answer.  I really think that this was a snub and that the players are upset about the jerseys on the ice and the booing.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

It was interesting to see Phaneuf repeatedly dodging the question as to how the lack of a "salute" was going to help the team.  They asked him several times and he repeatedly refused to answer.  I really think that this was a snub and that the players are upset about the jerseys on the ice and the booing.

If it is, the absolutely despicable treatment Elisha Phaneuf and April Reimer have been subjected to has probably played into it.

 

[Leaflifer]

I agree with the premise of this thread. Not a DP hater either, just miscast as you say.

Every workplace needs at least a few people to set an example for others. Without that it's just a gong-show.

...and smart-asses are toxic.

I don't see why a sports team would be any different.

All that aside, I just as surprised as anyone that RC is still behind the bench this year. Must be my trick "knee" acting up again.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Thought this was a pretty good read over at yahoo sports:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/maple-leafs-are-mess-no-one-s-sure-how-to-clean-up--trending-topics-064547341.html

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

I'd go as far as saying that is the best article I've seen in a decade, it absolutely nails what ails this team.

Agree.

 

[AvroArrow]

It was interesting to see Phaneuf repeatedly dodging the question as to how the lack of a "salute" was going to help the team.  They asked him several times and he repeatedly refused to answer.  I really think that this was a snub and that the players are upset about the jerseys on the ice and the booing.

Honestly, I hope it was intentional.  It'd be the first proof of them taking a stand together and fighting back.  Now they just need to do it on the ice more often.

 

[Kin]

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

But how in the world would it mean that? Why would this help them play better or win consistently? This won't in any way affect their ability on the ice so thinking of this issue in those terms is just as ridiculous as someone being deeply offended by it. 

 

[Boston Leaf]

It was interesting to see Phaneuf repeatedly dodging the question as to how the lack of a "salute" was going to help the team.  They asked him several times and he repeatedly refused to answer.  I really think that this was a snub and that the players are upset about the jerseys on the ice and the booing.

Honestly, I hope it was intentional.  It'd be the first proof of them taking a stand together and fighting back.  Now they just need to do it on the ice more often.

I agree

 

[Andy007]

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

But how in the world would it mean that? Why would this help them play better or win consistently? This won't in any way affect their ability on the ice so thinking of this issue in those terms is just as ridiculous as someone being deeply offended by it.

I'm saying I care mostly about the team winning. I don't care what they do before, after or during a game that might be considered by some to be rude or disgraceful, particularly when we are talking about a meaningless thing.

 

[Kin]

I'm saying I care mostly about the team winning. I don't care what they do before, after or during a game that might be considered by some to be rude or disgraceful, particularly when we are talking about a meaningless thing.

Which is fair enough but when you phrase it that way then, shockingly, the opposing viewpoint becomes less ridiculous. Then it's not about people who care about winning or not, it's about whether or not sports fans care about players being rude or disrespectful in addition to a concurrent interest in the team winning.

The salute never meant a thing to me and the decision to not do it doesn't bother me but if someone felt differently? I'd understand it. The idea that someone got offended by the decision to not do the salute is nowhere near as funny to me as the idea that at some point during yet another mediocre season the players on this team got together and decided that this was a change they should make.

 

[Andy007]

I'm saying I care mostly about the team winning. I don't care what they do before, after or during a game that might be considered by some to be rude or disgraceful, particularly when we are talking about a meaningless thing.

Which is fair enough but when you phrase it that way then, shockingly, the opposing viewpoint becomes less ridiculous. Then it's not about people who care about winning or not, it's about whether or not sports fans care about players being rude or disrespectful in addition to a concurrent interest in the team winning.

The salute never meant a thing to me and the decision to not do it doesn't bother me but if someone felt differently? I'd understand it. The idea that someone got offended by the decision to not do the salute is nowhere near as funny to me as the idea that at some point during yet another mediocre season the players on this team got together and decided that this was a change they should make.

You just said how ridiculous it was for anyone to be "deeply offended by the issue."  Now you understand it?  I knew I shouldn't have responded to you, this is going to turn into something that relies on so many minor nuances and inferred meanings that I am already going crosseyed..

 

[Kin]

You just said how ridiculous it was for anyone to be "deeply offended by the issue."  Now you understand it?  I knew I shouldn't have responded to you, this is going to turn into something that relies on so many minor nuances and inferred meanings that I am already going crosseyed..

I said it was ridiculous for someone to be deeply offended by it, then I said I would understand if someone was, unlike me, bothered by it. Those are in no way the same things.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Scroll about halfway down and you'll see it.

http://www.hockeystats.ca/game/2014020292

 

[2badknees]

I said it was ridiculous for someone to be deeply offended by it, then I said I would understand if someone was, unlike me, bothered by it. Those are in no way the same things.

I think that a lot of people are confusing the routine gesture, which is meaningless and not a big deal, with the message sent by removing it  - which is absolutely fair to equate with a metaphorical middle finger to the fanbase, 99.9999% of which are not throwing jerseys on the ice and tweeting Reimer's wife.

 

[Kin]

Oh, and from the article entitled "Maple Leafs are a mess no one?s sure how to clean up"

...the Leafs are ? and always will be ? a losing team under Carlyle...

...Carlyle couldn't coach to a winning campaign over 82 games if his life depended on it.

...the problems of this Leafs team remain its problems and will do so until something is done behind the bench and in the front office.

And Carlyle is a guy given a not-terrible roster (not a good one either, mind you) and taken it down to the dregs of the league.

So, it actually sounds like the writer has a pretty strong, and fresh, opinion about how the Leafs' mess should be cleaned up.