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Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

Borgman looks pretty okay+ without Polak.
Martin posted 3 pts tonight with two of them being beauty assists.
We've found Bozak's level: slightly better than 4th liner.
 
Check this out guy's, as of right now we have 57 goals, that's first in the league, unfortunately we also have 55 goals against, 2nd worst in the league, if we ever get the D fixed we should be unbeatable...lol
 
I mean yeah the Leafs were ass and changes are needed, but St Louis had been playing at home since last Saturday, were well rested while the Leafs played 4 games in 6 nights and traveled for every game.  Is anyone really surprised?
 
The losses are one thing how we lose is another. Frustrating watching the same s**t over and over again. I hate repeating myself on this site year after year. How hard is it to defend without the puck? Is it coaching, is it personnel whatever it is change something!
 
Zee said:
I mean yeah the Leafs were ass and changes are needed, but St Louis had been playing at home since last Saturday, were well rested while the Leafs played 4 games in 6 nights and traveled for every game.  Is anyone really surprised?
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Sure it's a tough swing but like azzurri said it's how they lost the 3 of 4.  Totally overmatched on defense and like someone said, outcoached to boot.
 
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
 
TML fan said:
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
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It's the expectations that concern me the most. Not so much the fan expectations, because we get excited when the team wins and down when they lose. That's what fans do.

It's what management/ownership expects that's bugging me. At times I think that the Leafs organization has been basking in the hype around the team and actually think this roster is ready to contend. I would really hate to think that, because that's just more of the short term mentality as you mentioned, that's kept the Leafs as a bad to mediocre team for decades.

There is a real reason for optimism with the Leafs, but there is a huge learning curve along with some significant roster shaping ahead before anything really starts to happen. The pain that's been spoken of is going to be experienced by management in their roster decisions from here on.

Of course, management knows this...
 
TML fan said:
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
Click to expand...

Agree with a lot of your post regarding expectations. Disagree with the idea that the slide started when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. I think the slide started when other teams started tightening up especially in the neutral zone. The goals didn't come as easily for the Leafs and the defensive shortcomings were exposed...they were always there but the team could no longer score enough to offset that weakness. They definitely have a lot of work to do especially in the defensive zone.

Otherwise...I stopped watching at 6-2 but up to that point thought Martin was one of the best forwards. Kapanen looks like he belongs. I've always liked Komarov but he doesn't seem to be himself this year.
 
Maybe teams played them tighter but I think it's a combination and I'm hesitant to give all the credit to the opposition. Now I admit I have only watched pieces of their last 5 games but it seemed to me that the Leafs have been so focused on their play without the puck that they are spending too much of the game playing without it. I think this is somewhat by design. I mean, obviously these results are not what they're going for but I think that's a product of still learning that side of the game. I'm also not suggesting that they are intentionally letting the other team have the puck, just that they aren't pursuing it and controlling it as aggressively as they were earlier on in favour of concentrating on defensive positioning and limiting high quality chances, which obviously they still need a lot of work on.

Notice how the Leafs seem to make the games close at the end? At that point they've pretty much abandoned playing defence to try and even the score, and whether it's a combination of their skill and the other team relenting a bit or if it's just their skill alone, they're getting back into games they had no business being in based on their play through 40 or so minutes.

Like I said I think this is by design. They could go the whole season basically not playing defence and probably still make the playoffs but that doesn't help them in the long run as a team as deeply flawed as that probably isn't going to win a championship without stellar goaltending, which I'm not convinced the Leafs have.
 
skrackle said:
TML fan said:
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
Click to expand...

It's what management/ownership expects that's bugging me. At times I think that the Leafs organization has been basking in the hype around the team and actually think this roster is ready to contend. I would really hate to think that, because that's just more of the short term mentality as you mentioned, that's kept the Leafs as a bad to mediocre team for decades.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a concern for me as well, but I'm keeping faith that this management group is playing the long game.
 
Babcock?s post-game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4QmMtpdOIE
He is remarkably even-keeled in his response after a hard-to-watch effort to cap off a semi-disasterous road trip.

When asked about what he thought of Borgman:
?...Matthews? group is always good. Matthews and Hyman are good, I should say.?
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Upon further review of the highlights (and low lights), Nylander was indeed benched briefly (around the time I was able to get back and start watching) and shuffled off that line for lackadaisical defense.

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/927040293391753217
Siegel highlights one of those key instances at the top of his game writeup.
 
Babcock also said Martin will never have a better game than that. And I know he meant it as a compliment but yeah, that was basically peak Martin without him doing any of that stupid stuff.
 
Leafs deserved to lose this one and it wasn?t a close game by any means.  Why was that not a trip on Borgman that led directly to a St Louis goal.  Then the 6th goal was goaltender interference. 
 
L K said:
Then the 6th goal was goaltender interference. 
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I mean it almost certainly wouldn't have changed the result of the game but I have no idea why Babs didn't challenge that goal. Would have been overturned for sure.
 
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