Leafs' D is in Better Shape Than We Think?

[TBLeafer]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

 

[Al14]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

So, what you are saying is that the Lightning would have beaten out Pittsburgh with Stamkos in the lineup.  I don't see Stamkos helping us that much to be honest. Maybe a half dozen points at most if he remains healthy.

 

[Bullfrog]

He wasn't a Leaf for very many games over the past two seasons but he's now being chased by the KHL.

Should this borderline NHL'er and very valuable Marlie accept?

[tweet]739836142263099393[/tweet]

In a heartbeat.

 

[nutman]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

So, what you are saying is that the Lightning would have beaten out Pittsburgh with Stamkos in the lineup.  I don't see Stamkos helping us that much to be honest. Maybe a half dozen points at most if he remains healthy.

His best help would come in the form of leadership, and taking the spotlight off our new young guns, and of course in the long run his scoring touch would be nice to have.

 

[TBLeafer]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

So, what you are saying is that the Lightning would have beaten out Pittsburgh with Stamkos in the lineup.  I don't see Stamkos helping us that much to be honest. Maybe a half dozen points at most if he remains healthy.

Might want to recheck my points prediction totals. 

 

[Al14]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

So, what you are saying is that the Lightning would have beaten out Pittsburgh with Stamkos in the lineup.  I don't see Stamkos helping us that much to be honest. Maybe a half dozen points at most if he remains healthy.

Might want to recheck my points prediction totals. 

Might want to reflect on 'if he remains healthy' part of my statement too.  For Stamkos to contribute to our points totals, some of our rookies will need to step up, otherwise,  opposing teams will just key on shutting Stamkos down.

IMHO, Stamkos will be a Red Wing or a Ranger, well, unless the Lighting step up big time, and soon.

 

[TBLeafer]

I have not said we have them, but more so it looks like we are very much on track with what we have, and I agreed we need this season to be a tell tale season. Like some on here are, I will never be a Debbie downer.

I'm very excited about where the Leafs are.  I just want them to continue with the process, because I envision cheering for a team that is one of the top 3 or 5 teams in the league year in and year out.  That's what I would like to see the Leafs become.  The only difference that I see is some people want that vision to occur next year, and I don't think that's a realistic expectation based on how this needs to progress.

Imo this season is the biggest in terms of what we have. I think we have some very solid talent coming up, and can't wait to see them play together. The season will be painful as they learn, but thats part of the build. This will be the season we can all pick our new fav, and get to know the rest. Then the the real Leaf hockey starts.

What I am willing to predict with or without Stamkos is the biggest year over year seasonal finish in terms of overall points.

Without Stamkos +/- 84 points or 15 points increase over last year.
With Stamkos +/- 90 points or 21 point increase over last year.

As our youthful core continue to improve beyond that, it'll be baby steps toward the cup.

So, what you are saying is that the Lightning would have beaten out Pittsburgh with Stamkos in the lineup.  I don't see Stamkos helping us that much to be honest. Maybe a half dozen points at most if he remains healthy.

Might want to recheck my points prediction totals. 

Might want to reflect on 'if he remains healthy' part of my statement too.  For Stamkos to contribute to our points totals, some of our rookies will need to step up, otherwise,  opposing teams will just key on shutting Stamkos down.

IMHO, Stamkos will be a Red Wing or a Ranger, well, unless the Lighting step up big time, and soon.

Neither team have close to the cap that can afford him right now and no team is likely to take on their dead weight, just so they can sign Stamkos.

If he hits the market, my guess is that its a 2 way main battle, between the Leafs and Sabres, just like it was for Babs.

 

[Kin]

Nik... why do you under value our players so much?. you have done this for years and years.

You realize that every year you come around and say the Leafs will be significantly better than they end up being and I say "Nah, they won't be that good" and every year I've been right and you've been wrong.

I've said the team hasn't been good every year for the last ten years because the team hasn't been very good for the last ten years.

 

[Kin]

Neither team have close to the cap that can afford him right now and no team is likely to take on their dead weight, just so they can sign Stamkos.

That's not actually true. Both the Rangers and Red Wings have about 15 or 16 million in Cap Space for next year before signing any RFA's. Signing Stamkos would take some maneuvering and would require some hard decisions on RFA's but both teams could do it.

 

[TBLeafer]

Neither team have close to the cap that can afford him right now and no team is likely to take on their dead weight, just so they can sign Stamkos.

That's not actually true. Both the Rangers and Red Wings have about 15 or 16 million in Cap Space for next year before signing any RFA's. Signing Stamkos would take some maneuvering and would require some hard decisions on RFA's but both teams could do it.

Oh sorry I meant not without totally mortgaging their future like the Leafs used to do.

 

[Kin]

Oh sorry I meant not without totally mortgaging their future like the Leafs used to do.

Neither team would have to mortgage their future or shift "dead weight". Both teams could do it by trading valuable pieces that could yield good returns. For the Rangers, for example, you could make the space probably just by trading Derek Brassard who is a pretty valuable and reasonably priced piece and then upgrade to the better/younger Stamkos. 

 

[TBLeafer]

Oh sorry I meant not without totally mortgaging their future like the Leafs used to do.

Neither team would have to mortgage their future or shift "dead weight". Both teams could do it by trading valuable pieces that could yield good returns. For the Rangers, for example, you could make the space probably just by trading Derek Brassard who is a pretty valuable and reasonably priced piece and then upgrade to the better/younger Stamkos.

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

 

[Kin]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Also, keep in mind that because you can go over the cap in the off-season the Rangers could sign Stamkos and then look to trade Brassard so making a bid on Stamkos or Staal could be a moot point and you're left dealing with the teams who missed out on the UFA's they want.

 

[TBLeafer]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

 

[Al14]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

Stamkos is in the drivers seat.  Whatever team he chooses to sign with will have to find a way to make the necessary cap room happen.  I can see some very good players being traded for peanuts in order for a team to accommodate signing Stammer.

We won't have to wait too long to see how this plays out.

 

[TBLeafer]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

Stamkos is in the drivers seat.  Whatever team he chooses to sign with will have to find a way to make the necessary cap room happen.  I can see some very good players being traded for peanuts in order for a team to accommodate signing Stammer.

We won't have to wait too long to see how this plays out.

Not anymore anyway.  I've been waiting since Stamkos entered last season unsigned and licking my chops since Kopitar got his contact and Stammer still remained unsigned.

It's gonna be an exciting climax, that's for sure.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

Stamkos is in the drivers seat.  Whatever team he chooses to sign with will have to find a way to make the necessary cap room happen.  I can see some very good players being traded for peanuts in order for a team to accommodate signing Stammer.

We won't have to wait too long to see how this plays out.

Not anymore anyway.  I've been waiting since Stamkos entered last season unsigned and licking my chops since Kopitar got his contact and Stammer still remained unsigned.

It's gonna be an exciting climax, that's for sure.

They usually are.

 

[Al14]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

Stamkos is in the drivers seat.  Whatever team he chooses to sign with will have to find a way to make the necessary cap room happen.  I can see some very good players being traded for peanuts in order for a team to accommodate signing Stammer.

We won't have to wait too long to see how this plays out.

Not anymore anyway.  I've been waiting since Stamkos entered last season unsigned and licking my chops since Kopitar got his contact and Stammer still remained unsigned.

It's gonna be an exciting climax, that's for sure.

I hope that whomever signs Stamkos overpays, and therefor, hurts their ability to sign some of their up and comers.

Well, I hope it's not us!  Sign Stamkos for a reasonable contract, or, stay far away is all I can say!

 

[TBLeafer]

Except team that could take on a Brassard for picks are probably in a good cap position to make a bid for Stamkos, or still above Brassard's level, Staal without having to give up picks.

Not necessarily. It's much easier to fit a 5 million cap hit than it is an 11 million dollar one. Not to mention there are probably going to be a lot of teams who will have the cap space for Stamkos but not the internal budget and could still use an upgrade at C. Think Winnipeg, Ottawa, the Coyotes.

Also, there are places free agents might just not want to go. Again, Winnipeg, Arizona, Columbus and so on. So if you're out of those sweepstakes and if NYR is willing to take a reasonable but not dirt cheap package of picks/prospects and you get a good C like Brassard it's a very appealing option if free agency isn't a route you can go. I mean, there's only one Stamkos and for all we know Staal essentially already has a deal to return to Carolina.

Either way, if NYR wants to trade Brassard they're not going to have a hard time of it. I mean you said the Leafs wouldn't have a hard time trading Bozak and Brassard's younger, better and only 750K more.

Nope.  They won't have a problem at all.  I suspect lots of trades and free agent signings happen after Stamkos decides where he wants to spend his next 7 or 8 years.

Stamkos is in the drivers seat.  Whatever team he chooses to sign with will have to find a way to make the necessary cap room happen.  I can see some very good players being traded for peanuts in order for a team to accommodate signing Stammer.

We won't have to wait too long to see how this plays out.

Not anymore anyway.  I've been waiting since Stamkos entered last season unsigned and licking my chops since Kopitar got his contact and Stammer still remained unsigned.

It's gonna be an exciting climax, that's for sure.

I hope that whomever signs Stamkos overpays, and therefor, hurts their ability to sign some of their up and comers.

Well, I hope it's not us!  Sign Stamkos for a reasonable contract, or, stay far away is all I can say!

I think we all want to see reasonable money for Stamkos that isn't crippling if he becomes a Leaf.

That's where the debate lies as far as Leafs fans are concerned.  The point at which you walk away.

 

[nutman]

Nik... why do you under value our players so much?. you have done this for years and years.

You realize that every year you come around and say the Leafs will be significantly better than they end up being and I say "Nah, they won't be that good" and every year I've been right and you've been wrong.

I've said the team hasn't been good every year for the last ten years because the team hasn't been very good for the last ten years.

I don't just come around every year, I am hear all the time all year, every year since this site was a baby.
my point was under valuing players, not how good the team has been. I know they have sucked for most of the last ten years, and I will still say they should have been better in some of them years then they were. yes I was wrong and gave them more credit then they deserved. But I can see when we have players with talent, I guess the problem was we never had the right people in place to bring that talent along. Now we do.

One thing I will say is that that trend, of me being wrong and you being right  will change, and much sooner then we think. my wrong was more wishful thinking then anything. But this time all the right stuff is coming together, all the new buds are planted, now we just need this season for them to start to sprout. Oh ya... we have the right team of gardeners to help the buds grow into some awesome Leafs this time.