Leafs hire Lindsay Hofford from London, Jim Paliafito from Saginaw

[ZBBM]

Wait a minute.  If Strome is such a clunk skater, and skating is the be-all and end-all, then why is he rated higher than Marner?  And that's by consensus, is it not?

 

[Kin]

Wait a minute.  If Strome is such a clunk skater, and skating is the be-all and end-all, then why is he rated higher than Marner?  And that's by consensus, is it not?

There are some who have it the other way.

 

[ZBBM]

Wait a minute.  If Strome is such a clunk skater, and skating is the be-all and end-all, then why is he rated higher than Marner?  And that's by consensus, is it not?

There are some who have it the other way.

There are?  I thought it's pretty much Hanifin/Strome or Strome/Hanifin at 3/4.

 

[Kin]

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-provorov-leaps-into-top-5-1.204945

It's Button but there you go. I think the Pronman list that got posted earlier had it the same way.

 

[Frank E]

Wait a minute.  If Strome is such a clunk skater, and skating is the be-all and end-all, then why is he rated higher than Marner?  And that's by consensus, is it not?

There are some who have it the other way.

There are?  I thought it's pretty much Hanifin/Strome or Strome/Hanifin at 3/4.

This is what I found at Eliteprospects.com for Strome:

Ranked #6 by Hockeyprospect.com
Ranked #3 by ISS Hockey
Ranked #4 by Future Considerations
Ranked #8 by McKeen's Hockey
Ranked #4 by NHL Central Scouting (NA Skaters)

The consensus seems to be that his skating is pretty much the only problem here, everything else is very strong, including elite playmaking.

Here's Marner:

Ranked #5 by Hockeyprospect.com
Ranked #6 by ISS Hockey
Ranked #5 by Future Considerations
Ranked #4 by McKeen's Hockey
Ranked #6 by NHL Central Scouting (NA Skaters)

I'm on the side of taking Strome if he's there...those big #1 centres are so hard to come by, and he scores at the same rate as Marner.  Marner is smallish, and Strome isn't elite fast, but I'll take Strome's size at centre over Marner's speed on the wing.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm on the side of taking Strome if he's there...those big #1 centres are so hard to come by, and he scores at the same rate as Marner.  Marner is smallish, and Strome isn't elite fast, but I'll take Strome's size at centre over Marner's speed on the wing.

I probably would, too, depending on how serious an issue Strome's skating really is and whether it's a physical issue or a technique issue. I mean, if it's just that he's an average or so skater, I think everything else he has to offer outweighs that issue, but if he's legitimately slow, then that is a pretty serious negative.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Wait a minute.  If Strome is such a clunk skater, and skating is the be-all and end-all, then why is he rated higher than Marner?  And that's by consensus, is it not?

Well I mean it wouldn't exactly be the first time traditional scouting services incorrectly ranked a bigger guy over a smaller guy. I'm not making any definitive statements here about these players, I was just saying that given how the Leafs are operating right now I think that between two similarly talented players there's a good chance they'll use skating as the deciding factor over size. Other teams/services might disagree.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The way I would personally rank them would be:

1) Hanifin
2) Marner as a centre
3) Strome
4) Marner as a winger

I've said this before, the Marner question for me is where do the Leafs feel he'll play in the NHL.

 

[ZBBM]

Thanks Frank for pulling those rankings.  I agree with your analysis.

The issue for me with Marner is that he's not likely to play center in the NHL.  You just don't pass on a center prospect who's (slightly) higher ranked by a consensus of scouts.  To state the obvious, we need that kind of center desperately, much more than a scoring winger.

 

[Kin]

Thanks Frank for pulling those rankings.  I agree with your analysis.

The issue for me with Marner is that he's not likely to play center in the NHL.  You just don't pass on a center prospect who's (slightly) higher ranked by a consensus of scouts.  To state the obvious, we need that kind of center desperately, much more than a scoring winger.

You could say just as easily that you don't draft for need at the top of the draft and especially not when the team has needs everywhere.

 

[Frank E]

Thanks Frank for pulling those rankings.  I agree with your analysis.

The issue for me with Marner is that he's not likely to play center in the NHL.  You just don't pass on a center prospect who's (slightly) higher ranked by a consensus of scouts.  To state the obvious, we need that kind of center desperately, much more than a scoring winger.

You could say just as easily that you don't draft for need at the top of the draft and especially not when the team has needs everywhere.

I guess I'd say that since they're pretty much a dead heat, I'll take the big centre.

 

[bustaheims]

You could say just as easily that you don't draft for need at the top of the draft and especially not when the team has needs everywhere.

Sure, but when you're dealing with comparable talents, I'd always take the guy who's likely to play the more valuable position.

 

[Kin]

You could say just as easily that you don't draft for need at the top of the draft and especially not when the team has needs everywhere.

Sure, but when you're dealing with comparable talents, I'd always take the guy who's likely to play the more valuable position.

I think that's ultimately true eventually, sure, but I think in the early stages of the rebuild you really should put a premium on just drafting the guy you think will be the best NHL player. More to the point, you're not going to determine whether or not they're comparable talents by aggregating scouting rankings. If the Leafs scouts think they're equally good fits for what they want to do, sure, err on the side of the guy more likely to play center.

And personally I'm #TeamHanifin regardless.

 

[ZBBM]

In the very unlikely event that Marner is taken by AZ, then Hanifin is my choice too. Else, what Frank and busta say.

 

[Kaberle15]

TB's Tyler Johnson kind of proves that size dosen't matter... 
Most of the scouts rank Strome and Manner equally.

Marner is my choice.

 

[Highlander]

Read between the lines in everything that Hunter and Dubas have said and Hofford as well, it seems clear to me that they think Marner has more pure talent then anyone else available after Mcdavid and Eischel  and that is what they said they would draft before all else regardless of positional needs.

 

[rdowdall]

Scouting report on Spezza.  The reason I bring it up is I find the early scouting reports between him and Strome to be similar:

"Spezza scouting report: Highly skilled player with a great shot. Has been compared to Bernie Nicholls or Jason Allison. Not a dynamic skater. But he has an engaging personality. Three years ago scouts thought he might be another Mario Lemieux. He has the potential to be a 100-point scorer. Some scout dropped him in their rankings after a poor playoff, but the consensus is that he will be an impact player. He might play next season. "

The Jason Allison comparison made me laugh, and then scared me.  I've heard that some scouts have compared Strome to Allison as well.  I've seen some Strome replays...surely he is a better skater than Allison?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Thanks Frank for pulling those rankings.  I agree with your analysis.

The issue for me with Marner is that he's not likely to play center in the NHL.  You just don't pass on a center prospect who's (slightly) higher ranked by a consensus of scouts.  To state the obvious, we need that kind of center desperately, much more than a scoring winger.

Weren't there questions about Giroux's ability to play pivot in the NHL too?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Scouting report on Spezza.  The reason I bring it up is I find the early scouting reports between him and Strome to be similar:

"Spezza scouting report: Highly skilled player with a great shot. Has been compared to Bernie Nicholls or Jason Allison. Not a dynamic skater. But he has an engaging personality. Three years ago scouts thought he might be another Mario Lemieux. He has the potential to be a 100-point scorer. Some scout dropped him in their rankings after a poor playoff, but the consensus is that he will be an impact player. He might play next season. "

The Jason Allison comparison made me laugh, and then scared me.  I've heard that some scouts have compared Strome to Allison as well.  I've seen some Strome replays...surely he is a better skater than Allison?

Spezza being compared to Allison would have been a compliment.  He was a 95 point player in 2001.

 

[rdowdall]

Scouting report on Spezza.  The reason I bring it up is I find the early scouting reports between him and Strome to be similar:

"Spezza scouting report: Highly skilled player with a great shot. Has been compared to Bernie Nicholls or Jason Allison. Not a dynamic skater. But he has an engaging personality. Three years ago scouts thought he might be another Mario Lemieux. He has the potential to be a 100-point scorer. Some scout dropped him in their rankings after a poor playoff, but the consensus is that he will be an impact player. He might play next season. "

The Jason Allison comparison made me laugh, and then scared me.  I've heard that some scouts have compared Strome to Allison as well.  I've seen some Strome replays...surely he is a better skater than Allison?

Spezza being compared to Allison would have been a compliment.  He was a 95 point player in 2001.

I suppose that my memory of Allison is somewhat tainted from his broken days as a Leaf.