Leafs @ Jets - Jan. 3rd, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050

[bustaheims]

Got a feeling this could be the end for Ashton. Think he'll be waived before the next game and someone else called up.

None too soon.  I never got all the defenders.  That guy has nothing.

Most of us really just want to see what he can do getting more than 6 or 7 minutes a night on the 4th line, and under a coach that isn't Randy Carlyle.

By that logic, explain Richard Panik.

Panik had a good chunk of time under a different coach before he got to Toronto, but, he's also riding a completely unsustainable shooting percentage.

 

[skrackle]

There's not much to like about this Leafs team, is there?

I keep trying to find something to grab onto, as I am a long-time fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but no, so far nothing's sticking.

This version of the Leafs seems to have perfected the art of explaining the loss. They are capable of getting hot enough to make you temporarily forget that they are a poorly constructed team that has no real hope of contending. I just hope that Brendan Shanahan (unproven in his current position) has seen enough and changes are coming.

As to the timeline, I'd axe Nonis and Carlyle today. Whoever takes over for the remainder of the season will likely not have a significant impact on how the team finishes. My eye is on Shanahan from this point on. I have no idea what he's thinking or what his plan is, but it's time for him to start making his mark on the Leafs.

 

[pmrules]

Got a feeling this could be the end for Ashton. Think he'll be waived before the next game and someone else called up.

None too soon.  I never got all the defenders.  That guy has nothing.

I'd rather have Joe Colborne especially with injuries at C, how great would it be to have him right now?

To keep Ashton over colborne was a horrible decision from a franchise perspective.

That isn't at all what happened. A spot was retained for both McLaren AND Orr and Colborne, who was out of options, was essentially let go. Ashton had options last year and this year; he wasn't kept over anyone and could/can be sent up and down from the Marlies without clearing waivers.

No one is saying the direct reasons why.  Just that indirectly, today we have Ashton and we don't have Colborne.

And, for the record, the post I responded to was criticizing the fact that the franchise chose Ashton over Colborne.

As for indirectly stating things, well the Leafs have Trevor Smith on the roster and gave up Alex Steen.

There was a spot for Colborne on that team...he lost it to Ashton/Orr/McLaren.  Orr and McLaren, in my mind at least, were guaranteed spots on that team as a result of Carlyles insistence to have goons.  Ashton outplayed Colborne in camp.  Ashton beat Colborne and as a result something had to be done with Colborne. 

Instead of sending Colborne down since he was out options...they traded him because those in power felt that he would get picked up if sent down and they would get nothing.  Thus, according to some on this team, Ashton/Orr/McLaren were better options than Colborne. 

Your ridiculous comments aside, I don't know how I can be any clearer.

 

[pmrules]

Got a feeling this could be the end for Ashton. Think he'll be waived before the next game and someone else called up.

None too soon.  I never got all the defenders.  That guy has nothing.

Most of us really just want to see what he can do getting more than 6 or 7 minutes a night on the 4th line, and under a coach that isn't Randy Carlyle.

By that logic, explain Richard Panik.

Panik had a good chunk of time under a different coach before he got to Toronto, but, he's also riding a completely unsustainable shooting percentage.

Uh, yeah, thats not the same logic.  Panik was able to show in his limited minutes that he was deserving of more minutes and Carlyle as a result he has rewarded him with more playing time and moving him up in the lineup.  Ashton has not shown anything in his time here, and thus no reward.  Sounds fair to me.

I know you have an anti-Carlyle agenda, but to say that Panik's "success" (again, relative to Ashton) is due to the success of another coach and that Ashton's lack of success is due to carlyle...wow...those are some real Anti-Carlyle hate on right there. 

At some point the players have to respond and be responsible for their own success.

 

[Andy007]

Got a feeling this could be the end for Ashton. Think he'll be waived before the next game and someone else called up.

None too soon.  I never got all the defenders.  That guy has nothing.

I'd rather have Joe Colborne especially with injuries at C, how great would it be to have him right now?

To keep Ashton over colborne was a horrible decision from a franchise perspective.

That isn't at all what happened. A spot was retained for both McLaren AND Orr and Colborne, who was out of options, was essentially let go. Ashton had options last year and this year; he wasn't kept over anyone and could/can be sent up and down from the Marlies without clearing waivers.

No one is saying the direct reasons why.  Just that indirectly, today we have Ashton and we don't have Colborne.

And, for the record, the post I responded to was criticizing the fact that the franchise chose Ashton over Colborne.

As for indirectly stating things, well the Leafs have Trevor Smith on the roster and gave up Alex Steen.

There was a spot for Colborne on that team...he lost it to Ashton/Orr/McLaren.  Orr and McLaren, in my mind at least, were guaranteed spots on that team as a result of Carlyles insistence to have goons.  Ashton outplayed Colborne in camp.  Ashton beat Colborne and as a result something had to be done with Colborne. 

Instead of sending Colborne down since he was out options...they traded him because those in power felt that he would get picked up if sent down and they would get nothing.  Thus, according to some on this team, Ashton/Orr/McLaren were better options than Colborne. 

Your ridiculous comments aside, I don't know how I can be any clearer.

Ashton could be sent down. Picking Orr and McLaren over Colborne was ridiculous, not sure why you'd single out Ashton, particularly since he had two years of options left and was only, what, 22? I bet you'd be the first person whining about Leaf management giving up on young prospects had Ashton gone somewhere else and put up a few points. Ridiculous.

 

[bustaheims]

Uh, yeah, thats not the same logic.  Panik was able to show in his limited minutes that he was deserving of more minutes and Carlyle as a result he has rewarded him with more playing time and moving him up in the lineup.  Ashton has not shown anything in his time here, and thus no reward.  Sounds fair to me.

I know you have an anti-Carlyle agenda, but to say that Panik's "success" (again, relative to Ashton) is due to the success of another coach and that Ashton's lack of success is due to carlyle...wow...those are some real Anti-Carlyle hate on right there. 

At some point the players have to respond and be responsible for their own success.

It's more that, by the time Panik arrived in Toronto, he had shown what kind of role he can be successful at in the NHL. Ashton, obviously, had not. Not every player can play the 4th line grinder role that Carlyle has insisted in using Ashton in. Maybe, he's just not suited for that, but, could play in a different role somewhere else in the lineup. Panik's success comes from being put in a position where he can succeed with his skill set - and a big part of that comes from having shown what that may be at the NHL level before arriving in Toronto. Ashton has really only been tried in one role, and, obviously, he hasn't been great at it. Before giving up on him, it would be prudent to try him in another role for a little while, and it seems like it'll take another coach for that to happen.

 

[pmrules]

Got a feeling this could be the end for Ashton. Think he'll be waived before the next game and someone else called up.

None too soon.  I never got all the defenders.  That guy has nothing.

I'd rather have Joe Colborne especially with injuries at C, how great would it be to have him right now?

To keep Ashton over colborne was a horrible decision from a franchise perspective.

That isn't at all what happened. A spot was retained for both McLaren AND Orr and Colborne, who was out of options, was essentially let go. Ashton had options last year and this year; he wasn't kept over anyone and could/can be sent up and down from the Marlies without clearing waivers.

No one is saying the direct reasons why.  Just that indirectly, today we have Ashton and we don't have Colborne.

And, for the record, the post I responded to was criticizing the fact that the franchise chose Ashton over Colborne.

As for indirectly stating things, well the Leafs have Trevor Smith on the roster and gave up Alex Steen.

There was a spot for Colborne on that team...he lost it to Ashton/Orr/McLaren.  Orr and McLaren, in my mind at least, were guaranteed spots on that team as a result of Carlyles insistence to have goons.  Ashton outplayed Colborne in camp.  Ashton beat Colborne and as a result something had to be done with Colborne. 

Instead of sending Colborne down since he was out options...they traded him because those in power felt that he would get picked up if sent down and they would get nothing.  Thus, according to some on this team, Ashton/Orr/McLaren were better options than Colborne. 

Your ridiculous comments aside, I don't know how I can be any clearer.

Ashton could be sent down. Picking Orr and McLaren over Colborne was ridiculous, not sure why you'd single out Ashton, particularly since he had two years of options left and was only, what, 22? I bet you'd be the first person whining about Leaf management giving up on young prospects had Ashton gone somewhere else and put up a few points. Ridiculous.

I think the bolded part is exactly what I'm doing...but for Colborne.  Although I wouldn't call it whining...

Again...Ashton/Orr/McLaren won spots at camp...Ashton was not going to go down to the minors, despite the fact that Ashton had options available and Colborne didn't.  That's what the powers that be wanted...as a result we lost Colborne.

Obviously the correct answer was to keep Ashton and Colborne and get rid of one of the goons, but I beleive, Orr and McLaren were not going to go down to the minors either because of who our coach was.

Anyways, I'm done with this...