Leafs negotiating long-term deal with Kadri?

[TML fan]

Really, all putting Kadri on the 1st line does is take a team that has a relatively decent 1st line and a mediocre 2nd line and turn it into a team with a slightly better 1st line and no 2nd line whatsoever. Moving Kadri to the first line doesn't make the Leafs suck any less. It just gives Kadri a chance to pad his stats so the Leafs can overpay a 2nd line centre, and so people can say "wow look how good Kadri is". Apparently the stats say that anyway so what does it matter? Maybe the Leafs win 1 or 2 more games with Kadri on the top line. Maybe they don't. It really doesn't matter. Kadri being on the 1st line doesn't change the Leafs' current situation.

Who said it changes the Leafs' current situation?  Just because it doesn't or wouldn't immediately make the team significantly better doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.  I don't even see very many people here advocating for Kadri to be made #1 C in the last couple pages.  Maybe my comment that he should have an increased role?

And it's impossible to say whether it would make the Leafs worse, better or do nothing.  None of these things happen in a vacuum.  Making Kadri the 1st line C doesn't preclude any other number of moves.  Fact is we haven't seen a significant period of time with the C position ice-times doled out differently to really be able to say for sure. 

The reality is that Kadri has a long-term future with the Leafs whereas Bozak does not or should not.  It makes sense to see what you've got in Kadri in a more prominent role going forward.  Can he handle the teams' best night in night out?  Can he grow into a #1 C role?  It appears to me to be easier to fill in C positions 2-4 than it would be to fill in C position #1.  It's in the Leafs' interest to know what they have in Kadri going forward.

I'm explaining to you WHY he's not on the top line. That's it. Everyone knows he's better than Bozak. That's the reason he's on the 2nd line, not a reason he should be on the first.

If he can't carry a 2nd line by himself, then he's not a legitimate #1 centre. End of story. Padding his stats doesn't make him a better player. He is what he is.

I mean I don't understand how you can hate Bozak so much and then advocate putting Kadri in essentially the same position Bozak is in? A 2nd or 3rd line centre made better by his linemates.

 

[freer]

Really, all putting Kadri on the 1st line does is take a team that has a relatively decent 1st line and a mediocre 2nd line and turn it into a team with a slightly better 1st line and no 2nd line whatsoever. Moving Kadri to the first line doesn't make the Leafs suck any less. It just gives Kadri a chance to pad his stats so the Leafs can overpay a 2nd line centre, and so people can say "wow look how good Kadri is". Apparently the stats say that anyway so what does it matter? Maybe the Leafs win 1 or 2 more games with Kadri on the top line. Maybe they don't. It really doesn't matter. Kadri being on the 1st line doesn't change the Leafs' current situation.

Who said it changes the Leafs' current situation?  Just because it doesn't or wouldn't immediately make the team significantly better doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.  I don't even see very many people here advocating for Kadri to be made #1 C in the last couple pages.  Maybe my comment that he should have an increased role?

And it's impossible to say whether it would make the Leafs worse, better or do nothing.  None of these things happen in a vacuum.  Making Kadri the 1st line C doesn't preclude any other number of moves.  Fact is we haven't seen a significant period of time with the C position ice-times doled out differently to really be able to say for sure. 

The reality is that Kadri has a long-term future with the Leafs whereas Bozak does not or should not.  It makes sense to see what you've got in Kadri in a more prominent role going forward.  Can he handle the teams' best night in night out?  Can he grow into a #1 C role?  It appears to me to be easier to fill in C positions 2-4 than it would be to fill in C position #1.  It's in the Leafs' interest to know what they have in Kadri going forward.

If he can't carry a 2nd line by himself, then he's not a legitimate #1 centre. End of story.

I mean I don't understand how you can hate Bozak so much and then advocate putting Kadri in essentially the same position Bozak is in? A 2nd or 3rd line centre made better by his linemates.

thank you for you non bias opinion

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If he can't carry a 2nd line by himself, then he's not a legitimate #1 centre. End of story.

*reads all the stats recently posted in this thread*

*bangs his head against the wall forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever*

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Really, all putting Kadri on the 1st line does is take a team that has a relatively decent 1st line and a mediocre 2nd line and turn it into a team with a slightly better 1st line and no 2nd line whatsoever. Moving Kadri to the first line doesn't make the Leafs suck any less. It just gives Kadri a chance to pad his stats so the Leafs can overpay a 2nd line centre, and so people can say "wow look how good Kadri is". Apparently the stats say that anyway so what does it matter? Maybe the Leafs win 1 or 2 more games with Kadri on the top line. Maybe they don't. It really doesn't matter. Kadri being on the 1st line doesn't change the Leafs' current situation.

Who said it changes the Leafs' current situation?  Just because it doesn't or wouldn't immediately make the team significantly better doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.  I don't even see very many people here advocating for Kadri to be made #1 C in the last couple pages.  Maybe my comment that he should have an increased role?

And it's impossible to say whether it would make the Leafs worse, better or do nothing.  None of these things happen in a vacuum.  Making Kadri the 1st line C doesn't preclude any other number of moves.  Fact is we haven't seen a significant period of time with the C position ice-times doled out differently to really be able to say for sure. 

The reality is that Kadri has a long-term future with the Leafs whereas Bozak does not or should not.  It makes sense to see what you've got in Kadri in a more prominent role going forward.  Can he handle the teams' best night in night out?  Can he grow into a #1 C role?  It appears to me to be easier to fill in C positions 2-4 than it would be to fill in C position #1.  It's in the Leafs' interest to know what they have in Kadri going forward.

I'm explaining to you WHY he's not on the top line. That's it. Everyone knows he's better than Bozak. That's the reason he's on the 2nd line, not a reason he should be on the first.

If he can't carry a 2nd line by himself, then he's not a legitimate #1 centre. End of story. Padding his stats doesn't make him a better player. He is what he is.

I mean I don't understand how you can hate Bozak so much and then advocate putting Kadri in essentially the same position Bozak is in? A 2nd or 3rd line centre made better by his linemates.

Where do you get the idea he can't carry a 2nd line by himself?  I don't hate Bozak, never have. 

How am I advocating putting Kadri in the same position as Bozak?  How is Kadri made better by his linemates?  He's been putting up (as the stats have shown) comparable even-strength numbers to Tavares/Duchene (again, not saying he's as good overall as those players) while playing on a 2nd line typically with (mostly) Lupul, Kulemin or MacArthur.  Is your argument that those players have made Kadri look better than he is?

My argument is that his offensive numbers in a 2nd line role have been more comparable to those of a 1st line C.  Bozak's numbers in a 1st line role are not comparable to those a 1st line C.  I'm not sure how to be clearer about it than that.

 

[TML fan]

If you take Kadri and put him on the 1st line, and then take him off it, then he's no longer on the 1st line. If you take Taveras off the 1st line, he's still on the 1st line. They play under different circumstances that the statistics don't reflect. You have to factor all of that in, not just pick the stats you like.

 

[Joe S.]

No offence TMLFan, but I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

All I was trying to illustrate was I was surprised I was at how Kadri compared to his draft class. The way people talk about Kadri here and sometimes in the media, I was really expecting much worse numbers...

That's all... this has nothing to do with Bozak, Tavares, 1st or second lines...

 

[TML fan]

The point that I'm making is all the "Kadri should be on the 1st line" stuff is nonsense. There are reasons he's not on the first line and all of them are legitimate. I think people just want to see Kadri's stats get padded so they can tell themselves what a great player he is. There is minimal, if any benefit to the Leafs to have him up there. Maybe they win a few more games, but it doesn't change the fact that you're just replacing one stopgap with another and making the rest of your team worse in the process.

 

[Bullfrog]

Maybe they win a few more games,...

Isn't that the goal as a hockey team?

 

[Chris]

I was the one who made the initial comment that putting Kadri on the first line a few years ago might have led to something other than the current dire, complete rebuild situation. I don't necessarily believe that to be true. However, no one can really say for certain. Perhaps Kadri and Kessel develop a really strong chemistry which offsets any weakening of the second line. Perhaps it exposes Bozak for what he is and the Leafs go out and find a stronger center instead of signing Clarkson.

I suspect the most likely outcome would be that the Leafs would be a little better, perhaps even on the verge of making the playoffs the past 2 years. That might just delay the inevitable need for a complete rebuild, but who knows.

For the record, I'm not sold on Kadri being a true #1 center, or even being a better fit with Kessel. If you think about it, the Leafs really have only one player on offense that the opposition must game plan for, and that is Kessel - when he's on, at least. The rest of the Leafs top forwards (Lupul, JVR, Bozak, even Kadri) bring similar skills - none are particularly physical, none are really good at winning puck battles, all are streaky scorers. We need another forward that scares the opposition and makes his linemates better. Can Kadri be that going forward? I'd argue that we really don't know - some of the numbers suggest yes, others don't. It would be nice to know that as the team potentially enters a tear-down/rebuild mode.

 

[TML fan]

Maybe they win a few more games,...

Isn't that the goal as a hockey team?

To just win a few more games? Maybe if thats the difference winning a championship or not, instead of 3rd last or 4th last.

 

[Joe S.]

Maybe they win a few more games,...

Isn't that the goal as a hockey team?

To just win a few more games? Maybe if thats the difference winning a championship or not, not 3rd last or 4th last.

You're mixing up players with management.

I don't care how low someone's opinion is of any player, there is no way any player in any league is playing to lose to help their team get a better draft pick. There's just no way players care about that kind of thing.

 

[Highlander]

I think we have only seen flashes of how good Kadri can in fact be.  I would like to see him develop into his true potential as a Leaf.  I actually still believe this kid can be a game changer.

 

[TML fan]

Maybe they win a few more games,...

Isn't that the goal as a hockey team?

To just win a few more games? Maybe if thats the difference winning a championship or not, not 3rd last or 4th last.

You're mixing up players with management.

I don't care how low someone's opinion is of any player, there is no way any player in any league is playing to lose to help their team get a better draft pick. There's just no way players care about that kind of thing.

I wasn't suggesting they are. I'm saying that in the Leafs current situation, "winning a few more games" doesn't make any difference.