Leafs @ Panthers - Dec. 28th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[herman]

Thanks for bringing up Game Score. I've been eyeballing it lately and used those depth charts yesterday to pick out the teams that seem to be going for 4 lines that can play.

Game Score is pretty heavily weighted on goals and points, so for Griffith to score over Martin (2/2) and Smith (2/1) combined with a mere 4 assists, I think that says a lot about the talent gap and their respective games beyond point production.

For the other young forwards in comparison, they get top minutes with play drivers in Auston Matthews or Nazem Kadri, as well as PP time. Babcock is doing a really good job with working them into roles in the lineup. Brown is the real deal, and Griffith out produced him in the AHL.

That's the kind of player to take a longer look at. Heck, Holland's Score of 0.19 exceeds Martin + Smith and he's been not playing or rolling with a tank team.

 

[TBLeafer]

FTR I'm dead set against thinking we need another top 5 pick to better the team in any way, shape, or form now through the draft to better the team and make it a Stanley Cup contender.

This team is trending up not down and doing so is better for the team.

Especially with Vegas entering the draft.

We aren't getting Lil'.

Foote perhaps.

 

[Kin]

FTR I'm dead set against thinking we need another top 5 pick to better the team in any way, shape, or form now through the draft to better the team and make it a Stanley Cup contender.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the record has your feelings on the matter.

 

[Tigger]

FTR I'm dead set against thinking we need another top 5 pick to better the team in any way, shape, or form now through the draft to better the team and make it a Stanley Cup contender.

This team is trending up not down and doing so is better for the team.

Especially with Vegas entering the draft.

We aren't getting Lil'.

Foote perhaps.

You seriously think a top 5 pick wouldn't help the team?

 

[TBLeafer]

FTR I'm dead set against thinking we need another top 5 pick to better the team in any way, shape, or form now through the draft to better the team and make it a Stanley Cup contender.

This team is trending up not down and doing so is better for the team.

Especially with Vegas entering the draft.

We aren't getting Lil'.

Foote perhaps.

You seriously think a top 5 pick wouldn't help the team?

Not given the current development curve, especially when it comes to rounding out our D because they take longer to develop.

We don't need anymore help up front.

 

[Tigger]

FTR I'm dead set against thinking we need another top 5 pick to better the team in any way, shape, or form now through the draft to better the team and make it a Stanley Cup contender.

This team is trending up not down and doing so is better for the team.

Especially with Vegas entering the draft.

We aren't getting Lil'.

Foote perhaps.

You seriously think a top 5 pick wouldn't help the team?

Not given the current development curve, especially when it comes to rounding out our D because they take longer to develop.

We don't need anymore help up front.

Alrighty then, FTR.

 

[Kin]

Not given the current development curve, especially when it comes to rounding out our D because they take longer to develop.

That tends not to be true with top 5 picked defensemen. If you look at the last 10 or so years of drafts more often than not top 5 defensemen are contributing at a high level to their NHL teams within a year or two of being drafted.

Regardless of what development curve you think they're on I happen to think their window won't have closed in a year or two.

Regardless, even if a top 5 defenseman isn't available a top 5 pick is an asset that can be used to acquire something that is on whatever timeline you want it to be. The idea that a top 5 pick wouldn't help the team is on its face ridiculous.

 

[Frank E]

Again, I think herman was arguing that Griffith should have played in Smith's spot because he had more offensive talent/upside than a guy like Smith.  I have to think that the team didn't feel as though Griffith was as good as Smith in that spot, so they waived him.

And, I agree with herman. Smith is a one-dimensional player. Griffith has more to his game. In this case, one skill was overvalued - and other areas of Smith's game that are lacking were overlooked - and the team opted for the more traditional "role player" (read: one-dimensional) over a more well-rounded player. I don't think the team would have performed any worse with Griffith in the lineup over Smith - and, quite likely, the 4th line would have performed better thanks to including another player with puck skills.

"Puck skills" and "well rounded" aren't really quantifiable things though. 

And only in Leafland do we spend time trying to weigh the relative benefits of 2 marginal 4th line guys that have 7 points between them and were both waived this year.

 

[herman]

"Puck skills" and "well rounded" aren't really quantifiable things though. 

And only in Leafland do we spend time trying to weigh the relative benefits of 2 marginal 4th line guys that have 7 points between them and were both waived this year.

Hockey analytics has been moving towards quantifying those very things with micro-stats, i.e. the actions/decisions that result in shots directed at the net (Corsi/Fenwick). Things like percentage of successful zone exits, zone entries, passing percentages, obstruction penalties taken vs drawn, all paint a picture about puck skills. Crossed with video data, and interviewing coaches and players, you can get a very good idea which players can extend plays, and which ones turn them over. They also, innately, lead to well-roundedness on the ice.

Dismissing the margins, rather than optimizing them, is complacency. In a league that has so many teams and eyeballs and computers seeking an advantage (because consistent winning = piles of money), if we're not constantly pushing to do something different, trying things and failing quickly and adjusting quickly until something works, we're already done. On the player level, that's nutrition, exercise, don't do drugs, blah blah blah. Maximizing your resources and capabilities at a personnel and coaching managerial level should not be ignored.