Leafs @ Panthers - Feb. 27th, 7:30pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[Highlander]

I give Marleau one more season and then he will tail off, so Robidas for him in year 3

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

 

[Strangelove]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

The thing about Zaitsev is that his badness is subtle--he rings the puck around the boards rather than finding an outlet, he stands in no man's land rather than giving his defensive partner support, he lets guys get high percentage shots off rather than closing gaps, etc.

Most of his mistakes are not glaring, but they occur on an extremely consistent basis and do just as much harm as other, more glaring mistakes.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

The thing about Zaitsev is that his badness is subtle--he rings the puck around the boards rather than finding an outlet, he stands in no man's land rather than giving his defensive partner support, he lets guys get high percentage shots off rather than closing gaps, etc.

Most of his mistakes are not glaring, but they occur on an extremely consistent basis and do just as much harm as other, more glaring mistakes.

Absolutely.  I just didn't notice it as much last year, maybe because he was shiny and new and wasn't getting paid like a second pairing Dman. 

 

[dappleganger]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

He was hurt with a foot injury for awhile this year so it could be a conditioning issue. Maybe still getting up to speed.

 

[ZBBM]

All this Zaitsev trashing just brings to the fore (again) that we don't have a single good RHD on the team.  That, not somebody like Plekanec, is what they should have spent assets on, even if the only thing available was a plekquivalent RHD.  If none was, they should have stood totally pat.

 

[Strangelove]

All this Zaitsev trashing just brings to the fore (again) that we don't have a single good RHD on the team.  That, not somebody like Plekanec, is what they should have spent assets on, even if the only thing available was a plekquivalent RHD.  If none was, they should have stood totally pat.

Except that Babcock loves Zaitsev, even though there's no reason why he should. He leads all Leafs' defencemen in average ice-time this season. My sense is that bringing someone in to significantly cut down Zaitsev's ice-time was probably never in the cards.

 

[rdowdall]

All this Zaitsev trashing just brings to the fore (again) that we don't have a single good RHD on the team.  That, not somebody like Plekanec, is what they should have spent assets on, even if the only thing available was a plekquivalent RHD.  If none was, they should have stood totally pat.

Except that Babcock loves Zaitsev, even though there's no reason why he should. He leads all Leafs' defencemen in average ice-time this season. My sense is that bringing someone in to significantly cut down Zaitsev's ice-time was probably never in the cards.

Mirtle was on the radio this morning and he surmises that the Zaitsev contract is a sign that Hunter, Dubas, Babcock and Lou may not be on the same page.  Old school thinking versus new age thinking.  The stats this year for Zaitsev are not good.  And he is signed for 7 years.

 

[Andy007]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

I actually thought he was their most consistent defenseman last year. I'm not sure if that early return from his concussion for the playoffs had some lingering effects or not but he does seem to have regressed a fair bit.

 

[herman]

All this Zaitsev trashing just brings to the fore (again) that we don't have a single good RHD on the team.  That, not somebody like Plekanec, is what they should have spent assets on, even if the only thing available was a plekquivalent RHD.  If none was, they should have stood totally pat.

Except that Babcock loves Zaitsev, even though there's no reason why he should. He leads all Leafs' defencemen in average ice-time this season. My sense is that bringing someone in to significantly cut down Zaitsev's ice-time was probably never in the cards.

There's no apparent reason to us, maybe. I don't know what they are exactly, but I also don't think it's fair to characterize his deployment as baseless whimsy. I can see some of the reasons why Babcock likes Zaitsev, but to me, those benefits are currently outweighed by his detriments.

 

[Frank E]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

I actually thought he was their most consistent defenseman last year. I'm not sure if that early return from his concussion for the playoffs had some lingering effects or not but he does seem to have regressed a fair bit.

I'll jump in and agree that I thought he looked better last season.

This defense issue has been around for 2 years now.  As soon as we hit the fall of 2016 and witnessed that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, were for real, many of us suggested that they now needed to address the defense. 

I don't think we left too many stones unturned; we talked Trouba, Dumba, Sergachev, Ghostisbehere, Barrie, OEL, on and on...anyways, here we are talking about it again.  It'd be nice if they'd get going on it, rather than signing Hainseys and Hunwicks, and drafting Korshkovs.

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/256736/2018/02/28/systems-analyst-maple-leafs-learn-aggresive-defending-is-good-but-sometimes-patience-is-better/

I see this with Dermott a lot. The difference is Dermott usually comes away with the puck ('cause he's really good at it) and no one's the wiser.

 

[rdowdall]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

I actually thought he was their most consistent defenseman last year. I'm not sure if that early return from his concussion for the playoffs had some lingering effects or not but he does seem to have regressed a fair bit.

I'll jump in and agree that I thought he looked better last season.

This defense issue has been around for 2 years now.  As soon as we hit the fall of 2016 and witnessed that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, were for real, many of us suggested that they now needed to address the defense. 

I don't think we left too many stones unturned; we talked Trouba, Dumba, Sergachev, Ghostisbehere, Barrie, OEL, on and on...anyways, here we are talking about it again.  It'd be nice if they'd get going on it, rather than signing Hainseys and Hunwicks, and drafting Korshkovs.

That's it, I'm starting a band with that name.  It was going to be "Memories of Wonderland", but I like "Drafting Korshkovs" better.

 

[herman]

I'm probably the biggest Zaitsev booster on this forum too 

His decision making issues really look like someone who is overthinking, i.e. playing outside his instinct. Is he being coached to learn how to play defense a certain way that he hasn't adjusted to? A lot of defensive timing, especially aggressive defensive timing, is about knowing the players coming at you and their tendencies. Without the puck, some of his flubs are more missed executions than bad decisions (see last night's OT pinch). With the puck, I don't know why he doesn't trust his skating (which is above average even on this team) and puck handling (which is average). Does he need glasses?

Oh right, he's coming off a broken in-step and took a huge hit to his conditioning.

Even more weird that he gets 24 min.

 

[Highlander]

From my remembering, I didn't think Zaitsev looked this bad last year.  Maybe he's just got the second year yips, seeing how he got that big contract and all.

I actually thought he was their most consistent defenseman last year. I'm not sure if that early return from his concussion for the playoffs had some lingering effects or not but he does seem to have regressed a fair bit.

I'll jump in and agree that I thought he looked better last season.

This defense issue has been around for 2 years now.  As soon as we hit the fall of 2016 and witnessed that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, were for real, many of us suggested that they now needed to address the defense. 

I don't think we left too many stones unturned; we talked Trouba, Dumba, Sergachev, Ghostisbehere, Barrie, OEL, on and on...anyways, here we are talking about it again.  It'd be nice if they'd get going on it, rather than signing Hainseys and Hunwicks, and drafting Korshkovs.

That's it, I'm starting a band with that name.  It was going to be "Memories of Wonderland", but I like "Drafting Korshkovs" better.

I have always like this one "Dudes with Tudes"

 

[Highlander]

I'm probably the biggest Zaitsev booster on this forum too 

His decision making issues really look like someone who is overthinking, i.e. playing outside his instinct. Is he being coached to learn how to play defense a certain way that he hasn't adjusted to? A lot of defensive timing, especially aggressive defensive timing, is about knowing the players coming at you and their tendencies. Without the puck, some of his flubs are more missed executions than bad decisions (see last night's OT pinch). With the puck, I don't know why he doesn't trust his skating (which is above average even on this team) and puck handling (which is average). Does he need glasses?

Oh right, he's coming off a broken in-step and took a huge hit to his conditioning.

Even more weird that he gets 24 min.

Hey Herman, maybe he is to tired to play correctly?

 

[L K]

I'm probably the biggest Zaitsev booster on this forum too 

His decision making issues really look like someone who is overthinking, i.e. playing outside his instinct. Is he being coached to learn how to play defense a certain way that he hasn't adjusted to? A lot of defensive timing, especially aggressive defensive timing, is about knowing the players coming at you and their tendencies. Without the puck, some of his flubs are more missed executions than bad decisions (see last night's OT pinch). With the puck, I don't know why he doesn't trust his skating (which is above average even on this team) and puck handling (which is average). Does he need glasses?

Oh right, he's coming off a broken in-step and took a huge hit to his conditioning.

Even more weird that he gets 24 min.

Yeah, although I seem to remember him doing it more and more last year too.  Less skating the puck and more of that silly dump the puck out of the zone.  I wonder if that's a Babcock thing with him because it sure as heck isn't a good element to add to his game.

 

[herman]

Yeah, although I seem to remember him doing it more and more last year too.  Less skating the puck and more of that silly dump the puck out of the zone.  I wonder if that's a Babcock thing with him because it sure as heck isn't a good element to add to his game.

He did. Auto dump, similar to Polak, Marincin.

It's not easy to hold the puck in the NHL. I'm probably a bit spoiled by the likes of Marner, Nylander, Gardiner, Rielly, Matthews, Kadri in that I semi-expect everyone to be able to hold it under duress and still keep his head up long enough to make a tape-to-tape pass.

 

[Highlander]

Yeah, although I seem to remember him doing it more and more last year too.  Less skating the puck and more of that silly dump the puck out of the zone.  I wonder if that's a Babcock thing with him because it sure as heck isn't a good element to add to his game.

He did. Auto dump, similar to Polak, Marincin.

It's not easy to hold the puck in the NHL. I'm probably a bit spoiled by the likes of Marner, Nylander, Gardiner, Rielly, Matthews, Kadri in that I semi-expect everyone to be able to hold it under duress and still keep his head up long enough to make a tape-to-tape pass.

Unless the Lilypad