Leafs @ Sabres - Nov. 15th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[TML fan]

The leafs did a lot of things better tonight, but the underlying problem is that they cannot execute a good, consistent gameplan, and that's why they're not a good team.

They really do need a coaching change.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

wow?? I'm glad I missed this one.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The leafs did a lot of things better tonight, but the underlying problem is that they cannot execute a good, consistent gameplan, and that's why they're not a good team.

They really do need a coaching change.

This game reminded me of games a few years ago in a way.  Wilson had teams that often outplayed the opposition, but faced the problem of the opposition not needing many chances to score on the Leafs and the Leafs players not being all that skilled.  The Leafs might have outplayed the Sabres, but they're just not offensively skilled enough.

 

[iwas11in67]

me too...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

From just two weeks ago:

OK.  I withdraw every negative comment I've ever made about Kessel.  That guys is on fire.

I'll say this right now: if Phaneuf can maintain this level of play all year, the question is not if we make the playoffs, but where we'll be seeded. I haven't seen a single bonehead play from him in quite awhile.

They're going through a bit of a rough patch with the team being decimated down the middle. It happens. Even to great players.

 

[ZBBM]

From just two weeks ago:

OK.  I withdraw every negative comment I've ever made about Kessel.  That guys is on fire.

I'll say this right now: if Phaneuf can maintain this level of play all year, the question is not if we make the playoffs, but where we'll be seeded. I haven't seen a single bonehead play from him in quite awhile.

They're going through a bit of a rough patch with the team being decimated down the middle. It happens. Even to great players.

I was happy to give them credit when it was due ... but of course to some that's a sign I'm not being realistic at all.  Go figure.

The problem is people were all lathered up to give Kessel anything and everything he wanted, because he's so elite.  What we see, of course, is that he still the same streaky player he always was.  Elite players lift teams up against the weak ones.  He didn't do it tonight, didn't even come close. 

Neither did Phaneuf, for that matter.

 

[princedpw]

Rag on me all you want, but Kessel and Phaneuf did nothing to show why they should be the core of the team.  NOTHING.  Lupul at least moved his feet.

There is no way they should lose to a crap team like that.  Any excuses they make are nonstarters.

I think you should be blaming Nonis and Carlyle.

 

[TML fan]

The leafs did a lot of things better tonight, but the underlying problem is that they cannot execute a good, consistent gameplan, and that's why they're not a good team.

They really do need a coaching change.

This game reminded me of games a few years ago in a way.  Wilson had teams that often outplayed the opposition, but faced the problem of the opposition not needing many chances to score on the Leafs and the Leafs players not being all that skilled.  The Leafs might have outplayed the Sabres, but they're just not offensively skilled enough.

It's more than that. It's like the players don't know what to do out there. Like they're being pulled in multiple directions at once. It's leading to poor reads on the play and bad decision making.

This Leafs team is as talented as any in this league. That is not their problem at all. Talent alone just isn't enough.

 

[azzurri63]

Yeah, that's a legit team right there.  Garbage effort.

The next time someone tells you Kessel is an elite player, tell 'em that an elite player eats bad teams alive.  What a joke.

You're ridiculous.  Sorry it's true.

Yeah, and you're an idiot.  Ooooooh, that was a valuable exchange.

Kessel does eat bad teams alive, but hey don't bother with facts or anything.  Keep using your one game sample sizes to make ridiculously broad assertions.

And I never called you anything nearing an idiot, but thanks for that.  You're the one who refuses to base any comment in reality but I'm the idiot.

You started the name calling, not me.  So park that I'm-all-offended crap and run along and dig up all Kessel's stats against the worst teams to "prove" that I'm off in la-la land.  Oh wait ... he was just a no-show against a 4-15 team.  So yeah, garbage effort, by the team, not just OldPhil.  He does get paid more than anyone, though, so please please pardon me while I hold him to higher standard.

Potvin I think all we're seeing is a little frustration from McFate and to be honest I feel the same way. I think what it is, is that we demand more from top players like Phil. Think we expect too much. From what I see from Kessel is a streaky player which frustrates the hell out of me. The injury to Bozak as much as most of us feel he is not a #1 centre is hurting us more than we think. Moving JVR there hasn't helped and if anything hurt the whole line. Nonis basically has his hands tied. No cap room and no one to fill the void down the middle.

 

[mr grieves]

From just two weeks ago:

OK.  I withdraw every negative comment I've ever made about Kessel.  That guys is on fire.

I'll say this right now: if Phaneuf can maintain this level of play all year, the question is not if we make the playoffs, but where we'll be seeded. I haven't seen a single bonehead play from him in quite awhile.

They're going through a bit of a rough patch with the team being decimated down the middle. It happens. Even to great players.

Yeah. Seems if one's going to call anyone out it should be whatever genius decided 4 NHL centers was all the team needed in the system to get through the season. I mean, Nonis got himself a contract extension too, so, uh -- how's it go? something like -- please please pardon me while I hold him to a higher standard... or whatever.

 

[mr grieves]

The problem is people were all lathered up to give Kessel anything and everything he wanted, because he's so elite.  What we see, of course, is that he still the same streaky player he always was.  Elite players lift teams up against the weak ones.  He didn't do it tonight, didn't even come close. 

So, he single-handedly pulled out the Anaheim win, the second Edmonton win, secured the team a point against the Devils... what other skater on the roster has done anything like that?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The problem is people were all lathered up to give Kessel anything and everything he wanted, because he's so elite.  What we see, of course, is that he still the same streaky player he always was.  Elite players lift teams up against the weak ones.  He didn't do it tonight, didn't even come close. 

Neither did Phaneuf, for that matter.

I just don't see how you can judge players the way you are on such a small handful of games. Kessel's probably been our best forward for 80% of the games this season and has single-handily earned us his fair share of points this season. He shouldn't be thrown off the bus just because he couldn't beat up a bad team that played probably their best game of the season. A team that also has one of the best goalies in the league who is historically great against the Leafs. You don't see LA trying to trade Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown because they couldn't beat up Buffalo either.

The Leafs aren't playing well right now. There's no doubt about that. If they keep this up the playoffs are going to start to slip out of their hands. But that shouldn't rest solely on Kessel's shoulders.

 

[ZBBM]

The problem is people were all lathered up to give Kessel anything and everything he wanted, because he's so elite.  What we see, of course, is that he still the same streaky player he always was.  Elite players lift teams up against the weak ones.  He didn't do it tonight, didn't even come close. 

So, he single-handedly pulled out the Anaheim win, the second Edmonton win, secured the team a point against the Devils... what other skaterplayer on the roster has done anything like that?

Bernier & Reimer.

How was Kessel tonight?  What did you think of his play tonight?  Do you think he should have done better?  Do you think he should have looked dangerous against a team like this?

Yeah, it's called a higher standard.

 

[ZBBM]

The problem is people were all lathered up to give Kessel anything and everything he wanted, because he's so elite.  What we see, of course, is that he still the same streaky player he always was.  Elite players lift teams up against the weak ones.  He didn't do it tonight, didn't even come close. 

Neither did Phaneuf, for that matter.

I just don't see how you can judge players the way you are on such a small handful of games. Kessel's probably been our best forward for 80% of the games this season and has single-handily earned us his fair share of points this season. He shouldn't be thrown off the bus just because he couldn't beat up a bad team that played probably their best game of the season. You don't see LA trying to trade Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown because they couldn't beat up Buffalo either.

The Leafs aren't playing well right now. There's no doubt about that. If they keep this up the playoffs are going to start to slip out of their hands. But that shouldn't rest solely on Kessel's shoulders.

This argument got sidetracked on Kessel.  He's not solely to blame, and I didn't claim he was.  But people laughed at me when I said it was a measure of the team's "legit" status to win these 2 games.  Disagree with that if you like, but I think it's valid.  And guess what?  It's a matter of opinion, so that's that.

 

[pnjunction]

Predicted this and didn't watch, these 3 games with all 3 top centres out are total write-offs.  I'm not sure how many games I'll watch before Bolland gets back, hopefully we're still in the playoff race by then.  I was optimistic the Leafs could figure out their game while the hot hands inevitably cooled off but with our weak middle decimated by injuries we are set for a nosedive I'm afraid.

Now I've watched some sucky Leafs teams in seasons past but my expectations were matched.  To see the team be so close to good but failing due to a combination of management mis-steps, injuries and lacklustre coaching (in that order i think) is even more frustrating.

 

[gunnar36]

The biggest problem with this team is a weak forecheck that likes to give other teams a free pass coming out of their zone.  There is rarely a sustained forecheck in the offensive zone and very few turnovers are created.

 

[azzurri63]

Predicted this and didn't watch, these 3 games with all 3 top centres out are total write-offs.  I'm not sure how many games I'll watch before Bolland gets back, hopefully we're still in the playoff race by then.  I was optimistic the Leafs could figure out their game while the hot hands inevitably cooled off but with our weak middle decimated by injuries we are set for a nosedive I'm afraid.

Now I've watched some sucky Leafs teams in seasons past but my expectations were matched.  To see the team be so close to good but failing due to a combination of management mis-steps, injuries and lacklustre coaching (in that order i think) is even more frustrating.

The way the team finished last season albeit pretty disheartening I think they needed a couple tweaks and first and foremost getting the team to play better defensively. Not only has Nonis made some unnecessary moves but Carlyle hasn't gotten this team to tighten up. Like I said the other day if it wasn't for Bernier and Reimer we'd be hooped.

 

[Stickytape]

I was so damn excited about this team going into the preseason. 

Now I just want someone to wake me up in, like, late January.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 3m
Carlyle on keeping JVR at centre: "I don't have anybody else."

Like I said, call-up McKegg and go with him, Smith, and McClement down the middle. It literally can't be any worse than what we've seen in the past couple of days, and it'll spread out the scoring on the wings a little more.

Two more games before Kadri and Bozak come back. I'll take one win there, but after that we need to go on a nice little run.

 

[princedpw]

From what I see from Kessel is a streaky player which frustrates the hell out of me.

Kessel is no more or less streaky than any other scorer that scores about a point per game.

Nonis basically has his hands tied. No cap room and no one to fill the void down the middle.

The phrasing here is wrong.  Nonis tied his own hands.  He could have resigned MacCarthur (3g, 9a, +12) for much cheaper than Clarkson.  He could have kept an extra center like Colborne instead of hoarding wingers.  He could have kept Grabbo (6g, 11a) and bought out Liles.

He could have fired Carlyle a while ago as he has failed to implement an effective system 5-on-5 for the last year+.