Leafs @ Sharks - Jan. 9th, 7:00pm - CBC TSN 1050

[Kin]

I certainly agree that kind of TOI wouldn't work for younger guys like Nylander/Brown - but for older prospects that are reaching fish or cut bait status, I would think 11 minutes (and over 2 minutes of PP time) would be a good test for a few guys in the system - not to mention the "intangible" benefit of motivating/rewarding good play with a call-up.

Right, but you have to figure that those are the post-deadline plans anyway. So it's really about the developmental benefits of having a prospect up here for those 11 minutes from now until then. And I'm not disagreeing with you as to which is more significant, I just don't think either option is particularly significant.

 

[sickbeast]

Guys I know this is going to sound crazy but do you think the players might have thrown this game in support of James Reimer? Why did Bernier start this game?

 

[Kin]

Guys I know this is going to sound crazy but do you think the players might have thrown this game in support of James Reimer? Why did Bernier start this game?

Because Reimer is coming back from a groin injury(and so you want to ease him back into a full-time role), played on Thursday night and Bernier has played really well of late.

 

[bustaheims]

Guys I know this is going to sound crazy but do you think the players might have thrown this game in support of James Reimer? Why did Bernier start this game?

Totally crazy. They just didn't play well at the end of what is generally a rough road stretch, after a couple very physically demanding games where they struggled early in terms of possession and spend a lot of energy turning things around.

 

[dappleganger]

No way Kadri wanted to finish -4 in protest of Bernier.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I certainly agree that kind of TOI wouldn't work for younger guys like Nylander/Brown - but for older prospects that are reaching fish or cut bait status, I would think 11 minutes (and over 2 minutes of PP time) would be a good test for a few guys in the system - not to mention the "intangible" benefit of motivating/rewarding good play with a call-up.

Right, but you have to figure that those are the post-deadline plans anyway. So it's really about the developmental benefits of having a prospect up here for those 11 minutes from now until then. And I'm not disagreeing with you as to which is more significant, I just don't think either option is particularly significant.

I pulled this from a Jonas Siegel article this past November:

The Leafs have no time frame on when Nylander will get an NHL opportunity this season (if at all), but when they do make that decision it will be with the intent that he remains for good. The organization believes constant shuttling of prospects hurts their confidence.

Dubas said the club made such mistakes with Leivo and Stuart Percy last season. They don't intend to do so again.
?It?s a nice feeling when they go up and start off well, but then when you start to shuttle them back and forth... it does a number on their confidence,? Dubas noted. ?It leaves them questioning where they?re at and I know from the outside it might be a hard thing for fans or people on the outside to really grasp, but it?s an emotional rollercoaster when you start going up and down as a young player.?

I think you can apply this to any Leafs prospect at this point. Leivo, for instance, has been playing pretty well lately (22 y.o.). In the past that may have been his ticket to a call-up, but this year I'm not sure it matters. The only way these guys are likely to get ice time is if the Leafs are able to clear out guys like Boyes, which means Boyes needs to play. If they're able to move some of these guys, then prospects will be brought up according to plan. But like Nik said, that's a post-deadline consideration.

 

[Kin]

Totally crazy. They just didn't play well at the end of what is generally a rough road stretch, after a couple very physically demanding games where they struggled early in terms of possession and spend a lot of energy turning things around.

Even that may not be strong enough. If the team even caught a hint of the players throwing a game, none of them would ever get another NHL contract.

 

[freer]

this was worse game that I have watched since Ron Wilson was the coach

 

[Bender]

this was worse game that I have watched since Ron Wilson was the coach

You've got to be kidding. It was a terrible game but I can name at least a couple during the Carlyle/Horachek era that were easily as bad if not worse.

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

 

[freer]

this was worse game that I have watched since Ron Wilson was the coach

You've got to be kidding. It was a terrible game but I can name at least a couple during the Carlyle/Horachek era that were easily as bad if not worse.

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I don't remember a game where they were beat 7 - 0
and did not miss game over the past three seasons

 

[hockeyfan1]

Poor Bernier was hung out to dry.  Babcock in no way placed the onus on Bernier for this loss.

The Sharks are the second team this season to defeat an opponent  by a 7 goal shutout.  Ugh!

 

[bustaheims]

I don't remember a game where they were beat 7 - 0
and did not miss game over the past three seasons

Is 7-0 worse than losing 9-2, like they did to the Preds last season? Or any of the games from the 2nd half of last season where they had basically given up? Or the laundry list of games where they were absolutely dominated everywhere except the scoreboard?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Saw some talk about Brad Boyes sucking earlier in this thread, thought that was a little strange. He's done a pretty good job considering he's basically only played a 4th line role, and thought the powerplay really picked up once he started to get minutes there (even if he isn't the one picking up the points himself).

Anyway, at even strength he has 10 points in 33 games. He has more even strength points than Grabner, Holland, and Lupul. Paranteau and Kadri both had 13 even strength points in 40 games, basically scoring at the same rate as Boyes. Now I'm not saying that those numbers are impressive, but it paints Boyes' in a good light. And of course they're playing top-6 minutes while Boyes has been on the 4th line basically the entire season.

Boyes actually leads all forwards in P/60 and CF%. I don't know how effective he would be on the left wing, but he'd be the guy I'd want replacing some of JVR's minutes.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Saw some talk about Brad Boyes sucking earlier in this thread, thought that was a little strange. He's done a pretty good job considering he's basically only played a 4th line role, and thought the powerplay really picked up once he started to get minutes there (even if he isn't the one picking up the points himself).

Anyway, at even strength he has 10 points in 33 games. He has more even strength points than Grabner, Holland, and Lupul. Paranteau and Kadri both had 13 even strength points in 40 games, basically scoring at the same rate as Boyes. Now I'm not saying that those numbers are impressive, but it paints Boyes' in a good light. And of course they're playing top-6 minutes while Boyes has been on the 4th line basically the entire season.

Boyes actually leads all forwards in P/60 and CF%. I don't know how effective he would be on the left wing, but he'd be the guy I'd want replacing some of JVR's minutes.

Yeah, I don't understand the irritation with Boyes. He's doing fairly well for the ice time he's getting. And as far as scratching him, he needs to play if there's any hope of trading him.

 

[freer]

I don't remember a game where they were beat 7 - 0
and did not miss game over the past three seasons

Is 7-0 worse than losing 9-2, like they did to the Preds last season? Or any of the games from the 2nd half of last season where they had basically given up? Or the laundry list of games where they were absolutely dominated everywhere except the scoreboard?

yes imo it is worse at least they scored

 

[bustaheims]

yes imo it is worse at least they scored

I really have to strongly disagree. Outside of the score, I didn't they they played especially poorly. They weren't great, but there were dozens of nights over the past few seasons where there efforts were significantly worse. I get the impression that you largely base your opinion of the quality of the game on the score, but it's really secondary to performance. That 9-2 loss to Nashville last year was one of the saddest displays of hockey I've seen from the Leafs since the 80s. They were that bad that night. Against San Jose? That was a run-of-the-mill bad game where the Sharks happened to capitalize on a large number of their opportunities.

 

[hockeyfan1]

yes imo it is worse at least they scored

I really have to strongly disagree. Outside of the score, I didn't they they played especially poorly. They weren't great, but there were dozens of nights over the past few seasons where there efforts were significantly worse. I get the impression that you largely base your opinion of the quality of the game on the score, but it's really secondary to performance. That 9-2 loss to Nashville last year was one of the saddest displays of hockey I've seen from the Leafs since the 80s. They were that bad that night. Against San Jose? That was a run-of-the-mill bad game where the Sharks happened to capitalize on a large number of their opportunities.

On paper, at first glance, a 7-O shutout may seem embarrassing.  Yet, there are teams every once In a while that lose by a lopsided score.  It happens to every team, but it they own up to their mistakes and keep working hard, one can't say that they don't try or don't care.  You move on and re-focus.

That 9-2 loss to Nashville last season was the exception to the rule.  It encapsulated all that was wrong with the Leafs at the time.  It was an exclamation mark, a summation of things not right with the team, right down to their relationship with their fans.  It wasn't just another loss.  It was probably the most embarrassing and pathetic outcome as displayed by the players at  the time.

Which is why the 7-0 shutout by the Sharks may not feel or look right, but not after assessing the fact, as coach Babcock reiterated, that the effort was there,  things just didn't seem to go their way.

Big difference between the 9-2 and the 7-O score.