Leafs sign Dion Phaneuf to 7 year extension

[bustaheims]

I hate to play the "have you ever played the game card" but anybody who says they've never sworn at a teammate in any sort of competitive sport is probably lying.

Exactly. You also don't spend as much time together as these guys do and live in perfect harmony the whole time.

 

[pmrules]

Hockey players swearing at each other???  Say it ain't so...that almost never happens. :

 

[Kin]

I hate to play the "have you ever played the game card" but anybody who says they've never sworn at a teammate in any sort of competitive sport is probably lying.

There's a difference between swearing for emphasis and anger though. I've certainly said something like "cover the [bleeping] point" or what have you but I don't think I've ever told a teammate to "shut the [bleep] up" or "go [bleep] themselves".

I'm certainly on the Tempest in a Teapot side here but that strikes me as a false equivalency.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There's a difference between swearing for emphasis and anger though. I've certainly said something like "cover the [bleeping] point" or what have you but I don't think I've ever told a teammate to "shut the [bleep] up" or "go [bleep] themselves".

I'm certainly on the Tempest in a Teapot side here but that strikes me as a false equivalency.

Fair enough. Maybe I worded that wrong as certainly there are people out there who can keep their cool better than others. But I doubt anybody who has played competitive sports hasn't heard a teammate swear at another teammate in anger only for them to completely brush it off afterward.

I'm only arguing about this because there are definitely people out there who are looking at that clip and thinking that there's some sort of rift between the two players, that Kessel is a bad teammate or that Phaneuf is a bad captain. I don't think you can make that conclusion at all based on that.

 

[2badknees]

I'm certainly on the Tempest in a Teapot side here but that strikes me as a false equivalency.

I was listening to some noon hockey show yesterday where they were talking about the phaneuf/kessel "exchange", and the consensus from the ex-players on the panel was that it isn't uncommon for same-team players to basically tell each other to shut the bleep up, or argue.

I didn't progress past junior, and it did happen in my experience, but it was more about frustration and pressure bringing out personality conflicts. It would be rare to see someone dressing down the captain (assuming it happened, of course)

 

[Kin]

Fair enough. Maybe I worded that wrong as certainly there are people out there who can keep their cool better than others. But I doubt anybody who has played competitive sports hasn't heard a teammate swear at another teammate in anger only for them to completely brush it off afterward.

Yeah, again, maybe I just played my sports with a level-headed group of guys or you're talking about playing past the high school level but I think I can honestly say that I never really heard any of my teammates swear at each other in anger on the court/ice/field where it wasn't a case of the people genuinely not getting along.

That said, I absolutely agree that it's probably different at the pro level and that even if it happened, even if Kessel doesn't get along with Phaneuf, it doesn't really matter.

I'm only arguing about this because there are definitely people out there who are looking at that clip and thinking that there's some sort of rift between the two players, that Kessel is a bad teammate or that Phaneuf is a bad captain. I don't think you can make that conclusion at all based on that.

I agree. At most the worst you could say it's that it's evidence of considerable frustration within the ranks which, given what has happened to the team, is pretty understandable.

 

[Strangelove]

There's a difference between swearing for emphasis and anger though. I've certainly said something like "cover the [bleeping] point" or what have you but I don't think I've ever told a teammate to "shut the [bleep] up" or "go [bleep] themselves".

I'm certainly on the Tempest in a Teapot side here but that strikes me as a false equivalency.

Fair enough. Maybe I worded that wrong as certainly there are people out there who can keep their cool better than others. But I doubt anybody who has played competitive sports hasn't heard a teammate swear at another teammate in anger only for them to completely brush it off afterward.

I'm only arguing about this because there are definitely people out there who are looking at that clip and thinking that there's some sort of rift between the two players, that Kessel is a bad teammate or that Phaneuf is a bad captain. I don't think you can make that conclusion at all based on that.

I don't think you can conclude that Phaneuf is a bad captain based on that clip. But everything I've seen with him at the helm suggests that he's not the type of guy capable of bringing the team together, commanding respect, and calming the guys down when they're in a tailspin. All of which suggests to me that he's a bad captain.

At the same time, having played hockey at a fairly high level (at least when I was younger), I never would have told any of my captains to shut the F up, nor was anything like that ever said to me when I was captain.  It's just not something that's done.  Can you imagine Sundin being told the same thing?  The fact that the Leafs' top player said that to Dion says something, like it or not, about what he thinks about his captain.

 

[freer]

This is all a smear campaign by the media to cause rifts so they have something to right about. Nothing more. I have watched practices where two players beat the hell out of each other and the next game, they score two or three goals together. This is nothing.

 

[Bullfrog]

came across this chart at other Leafs boards, showing usage of Phaneuf and Gunnarsson (Phaneuf is right behind Gunnar?s circle). Even uneducated hockey fan can clearly see that Carlyle?s usage of Dion-Gunnar combo has been just INSANE, the same as last year with Kuli and Grabbo.

Honestly, the only thing that chart says to me(and, admittedly, my education is limited to the social sciences) is that the Leafs are a really bad puck possession team. The actual use of Phaneuf/Gunnarson in terms of the quality of opposition they're facing isn't unusual or noteworthy.

Particularly in the context that the coaching staff probably doesn't trust anyone else. I'm sure they'd like to reduce Phaneuf's minutes and place him in a more offensive role, but then who else is going to play the tough minutes?

 

[Kin]

Particularly in the context that the coaching staff probably doesn't trust anyone else. I'm sure they'd like to reduce Phaneuf's minutes and place him in a more offensive role, but then who else is going to play the tough minutes?

I mean, I don't really agree with the idea that zone starts is really a measure of whether or not a defenseman is being used in an offensive or defensive role. I think the amount of time that they play with the Kessel line or get on the PP is more indicative of that and I think it's fair to say that Phaneuf has been used the way most teams use their #1 defensemen, more or less.

It's Franson and Gardiner's positions on that chart that means the most to me. The Leafs simply have a ton of defensive zone face-offs and that's skewing the chart. It's not so much about the way they're being used selectively.