Leafs Sign Jake Gardiner (5 years, 4.05M AAV)

[lamajama]

This makes me very happy as well

It is apparent that management has chosen
Jake rather than what I'm sure Carlyle wanted
(Despite his claim otherwise).

 

[AvroArrow]

Holzer likely makes more sense as he's older/more experienced and his development won't be stunted by playing the role of 7th defenceman.

I don't mind if Holzer is the #7, but I don't want him on the ice during any games.  He sucks.

 

[KW Sluggo]

It also tells me that Shanny is firmly in control of the day to day and like Dave Poulin, woe to he who stands in Shanny's path to respectability and annual playoff appearances a la the Destroyed Dead Things.

I don't know how to make that leap. Nonis has, for the most part, negotiated pretty good contracts. Bringing back Gardiner in some form or another was pretty much a no-brainer. I'm comfortable believing that Shanahan maybe set the direction of looking long-term on this deal but in terms of the actual negotiating I have to believe this is Nonis' handiwork.

I am not being critical of Nonis' contract negotiating skill, that is another issue entirely.

I am speaking only about team building philosophy and the fact that there is a consistent strategy emerging that is aimed at achieving success on an annual basis and not just at making a UFA splash or making the playoffs just to say we did or to save someone's job as GM or as coach.

Last year the philosophy was Clarksonesque, this year it decidedly is not. Things have changed and they have changed from the top down.

Nonis (and to an even greater extent Carlyle) is on a short leash. It will no longer be acceptable to perform as this team has essentially for the last decade. No more signings for the sake of signings. No more trades that do not reflect the overall strategy ...in other words no trades for the sake of making a trade and to amuse and distract the fans.

As for the "no brainer" comment well yes, bringing back Gardiner should be a no brainer and yet all of the talk (and I do mean all of it) was the short term fix of a bridge contract and the incessant trade Gardiner chatter.

This guy is a key building block and along term Leaf player, not a David Booth or a Daniel Winnick spare part or gamble. Making this commitment, not a bridge contract, as they did I see as a positive change.

The measage sent to me and to the players is that there is a plan in plcace, there is accountability and there is management commitment. While you can say that it is a no brainer that such things are there the sad fact is that quite obviously they were not. The lack of on ice success is obviously linked to the talent level of the players but equally so it is tied to the degree of efficacy, intensity, strategy and initiative that management brings to bear.

I will concede that in theory what happens on the ice ought to be a pure and unalloyed manifestation of roster talent and effort and yet in practice it is not.

As the expression goes, the fish rots and stinks from the head down and for far too long this Leaf fish has done both.

Bottom line is that I am as happy with is as with anything the Leafs have done in a very long time.  but I am not making any comment express or implied about Dave Nonis' skill at negotiating contracts. Not today anyway.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't mind if Holzer is the #7, but I don't want him on the ice during any games.  He sucks.

He sucked playing top line minutes with Phaneuf against the Crosby's and Ovechkin's of the world. As a bottom pairing guy with secondary PK minutes I think he'd probably be fine. At any rate we shouldn't really judge him too harshly based on what we've seen from him at the NHL level so far.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kontiola and Komarov will probably tried together as they played together in Europe but it could easily wind up as you have it.

I think their only connection was the Finnish national team, and I don't believe they ever really played on the same line. So I'm not sure how much chemistry there will be there, although they could certainly develop some quickly. There's definitely a ton of options for lines from that group, I mostly just meant that those will be the 14 forwards I expect on the roster.

They might be weaker at center than last year but stronger on the wings in the bottom six.

I don't think that's the case (regarding the centres). I guess that depends on how much you consider Bolland's 23 games effected their centre depth. But even including him the team had this down the middle:

Bozak
Kadri
Bolland
McClement
Holland
Smith
------------
Smithson
Kulemin
JVR
McKegg

Once injuries hit we had to rely on a 35-year AHLer or move two of our wingers to a position they've never played before. McKegg didn't even get a sniff from Carlyle.

Now we've lost McClement and Bolland but added a ton of players who can play centre. In my opinion Santorelli is probably just about as good as Bolland, but I don't really have a high opinion of him. Holland playing centre full time will be an upgrade over McClement who lost even some of his biggest supporters with his play last season. Then we added Kontiola, Komarov, and Winnik who have all played centre as some point in their career. We won't have to scrap the bottom of the AHL barrel or move Lupul to centre now when injuries hit. At worst I'd say quality-wise it's a draw but we've definitely improved in terms of quantity.

 

[Tigger]

Aren't we over the cap now?

No. There's a lot of spare bodies, and some of them will be sent to the Marlies. They won't have a done of space to place with, but, they'll have some. This does signal the end of the team's forays into free agency this summer, as, without a trade, they don't have space to bring anyone else in.

For opening day, yeah, they could still sign players now in terms of the cap ceiling.

Very, very happy with this signing.

 

[Strangelove]

Nice signing. He's pretty clearly our best defenseman. Pretty surprised he signed for that many years at that price.

 

[losveratos]

Just in case I was not clear enough....I could not possibly be more freaking pleased with this move than I am. Shanny is making an enormous difference.

In other summers we would have overpaid for  UFA that was past his "best before" date and we would have traded Gardiner to some place like Edmonton for a lesser player or players or worse friging still we would have shipped him to Boston for some guy they had no choice but to move due to the salary cap anyway and we would have thrown in a first round draft pick (or two) and maybe a second rounder and then signed the over the hill stiff Bruin for megabucks for 5 years and then wondered why Boston does so well while we suck goat dicks (yet again) while watching the Beantowners use our pick(s) to continue a competitive team as they go to the podium to select a great junior player with our fourth or fifth overall pick(s).

Yep... you're not exaggerating at all. ALL of those things clearly happened while we had Burke and Nonis.

 

[ZBBM]

This is great news - This deal will look spectacular in years 3-5 especially when he starts to pay more attention to his own zone.

If he does. 

I get that everybody's in love with him, but he's yet to demonstrate that he's a capable defender.  Hopefully he'll get there.

 

[cw]

This is great news - This deal will look spectacular in years 3-5 especially when he starts to pay more attention to his own zone.

If he does. 

I get that everybody's in love with him, but he's yet to demonstrate that he's a capable defender.  Hopefully he'll get there.

He's not there yet for sure.

But it's also not uncommon for dmen to take time to get there - a few years in the NHL. In my opinion, not many are strong defensively before the age of 25 and my impression is that a player coming from college, having fewer years as a pro under his belt, typically takes a little longer.

As well, dmen who take offensive chances, as his talent dictates he should, are going to get caught periodically. Because of that, it's pretty rare that dmen like that will be perceived as great defensively. Folks will remember the odd play where they got burned.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

As well, dmen who take offensive chances, as his talent dictates he should, are going to get caught periodically. Because of that, it's pretty rare that dmen like that will be perceived as great defensively. Folks will remember the odd play where they got burned.

I think this is where we're at with Gardiner.  He's not great defensively but even right now he's capable in his own end, but has a bit of the 'Phaneuf-syndrome' going on where every mistake is amplified.

EDIT: Actually I'm going to change that to the 'Kaberle-syndrome' wherein an offensively gifted defenseman is criticized their entire career for being incapable defensively.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Yeah, pretty great job of signing Gards long-term. I was hoping that this was the delay, it's really good business to get a talent like this into UFA years.

I agree with cw, I think there is a trade coming on the back end. I think Franson is the obvious guy and we need a 2nd round pick next year, as unless the player coming back is young and talented, I'd rather take a pick and promote Granberg or Percy or whoever shines in camp.

But, great deal! If it hadn't been said already.

 

[AvroArrow]

I don't mind if Holzer is the #7, but I don't want him on the ice during any games.  He sucks.

He sucked playing top line minutes with Phaneuf against the Crosby's and Ovechkin's of the world. As a bottom pairing guy with secondary PK minutes I think he'd probably be fine. At any rate we shouldn't really judge him too harshly based on what we've seen from him at the NHL level so far.

It's a little off topic, but he sucked regardless of where he was in the lineup - and I'm pretty sure it wasn't all on the top unit.  Just looking at old game day threads, he had stints with Liles and Kostka, for instance.  And frankly, he sucked in all training camps I've seen too.  I haven't seen 1 iota of evidence that he has any skill whatsoever.  It doesn't surprise me that he hasn't stuck with the team.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's a little off topic, but he sucked regardless of where he was in the lineup - and I'm pretty sure it wasn't all on the top unit.  Just looking at old game day threads, he had stints with Liles and Kostka, for instance.  And frankly, he sucked in all training camps I've seen too.  I haven't seen 1 iota of evidence that he has any skill whatsoever.  It doesn't surprise me that he hasn't stuck with the team.

In the 22 games he played that season he had 336:49 of EV ice-time. 229:17 (almost 70%) of that was spent with Phaneuf. He had about 58 minutes with Liles, 23 with Gunnarsson, 17 with Fraser, and 7 with Kostka. So I'd still say it's not really fair to judge him based on that 22-game sample where he was mostly playing way over his head.

As for the skill thing, sure that's not what he's known for. But if that's your argument for not wanting him up I sure hope you don't propose Granberg takes his place.

 

[Kin]

Last year the philosophy was Clarksonesque, this year it decidedly is not. Things have changed and they have changed from the top down.

Well, congrats on by far the most awkward attempt at dragging Clarkson into anything but even if the signing of Clarkson in anyway composed a philosophy there's really no indication that they learned anything from the Clarkson signing. Nonis gave Clarkson a big, multi-year deal despite him really being a third line kind of forward who could really only justify the annual salary if you attached a huge amount of value to "intangibles".

Then, the Clarkson deal blows up in their face and this off-season they...offer a big, multi-year deal to a third line kind of forward who could only justify the annual salary if you attach a huge amount of value to "intangibles". The only difference between the offer the Leafs made to Bolland and the offer the team made to Clarkson is that A) Clarkson took the offer and B) The Bolland deal actually made less sense because the Clarkson deal was squeezing the cap so much.

But there is no way to argue that there's a substantial philosophical difference there.

As for the "no brainer" comment well yes, bringing back Gardiner should be a no brainer and yet all of the talk (and I do mean all of it) was the short term fix of a bridge contract and the incessant trade Gardiner chatter.

You can look at the RFA contracts thread here and see we were all talking about the possibility of Gardiner signing a 5 year deal. Heck, every time any RFA comes up the conversation is now going to be about a bridge deal vs. a long-term deal and just about every player will be engaged in negotiations on both.

But even put that aside and your read on it doesn't make any sense. If "the talk" was about signing Gardiner to  bridge deal than the "talk" occurred with Shanahan in charge. The only way that Shanahan's hiring drastically changed the team's approach from preferring a bridge deal to a long-term one is if Shanahan were hired last week.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I agree with cw, I think there is a trade coming on the back end. I think Franson is the obvious guy and we need a 2nd round pick next year, as unless the player coming back is young and talented, I'd rather take a pick and promote Granberg or Percy or whoever shines in camp.

I think that we underestimate just how much Carlyle likes Franson. He averaged about as much EV-ice time last season as Gunnarsson, and was +20 minutes overall. It looks like the Leafs want to use the lefties on the left and righties on the right this season, so I actually wouldn't be totally surprised if Franson ends up on the top pairing with Phaneuf next season.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I agree with cw, I think there is a trade coming on the back end. I think Franson is the obvious guy and we need a 2nd round pick next year, as unless the player coming back is young and talented, I'd rather take a pick and promote Granberg or Percy or whoever shines in camp.

I think that we underestimate just how much Carlyle likes Franson. He averaged about as much EV-ice time last season as Gunnarsson, and was +20 minutes overall. It looks like the Leafs want to use the lefties on the left and righties on the right this season, so I actually wouldn't be totally surprised if Franson ends up on the top pairing with Phaneuf next season.

It's not out of the question, I think the Leafs are in a good position regarding any trade for Franson, they can wait for what they want.

As far as Carlyle liking him, that may be so, but I see Carlyle with less control over anything and wouldn't rule out a trade based on that. Just because Franson got those minutes, doesn't mean he performed a good job. I thought he was good on the power play and struggled with the EV ice-time.

I'm not disagreeing with Franson potentially sticking though.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I agree with cw, I think there is a trade coming on the back end. I think Franson is the obvious guy and we need a 2nd round pick next year, as unless the player coming back is young and talented, I'd rather take a pick and promote Granberg or Percy or whoever shines in camp.

I think that we underestimate just how much Carlyle likes Franson. He averaged about as much EV-ice time last season as Gunnarsson, and was +20 minutes overall. It looks like the Leafs want to use the lefties on the left and righties on the right this season, so I actually wouldn't be totally surprised if Franson ends up on the top pairing with Phaneuf next season.

* Shudders at the thought *  The combination of those two back there is too SLOW.  Out of the right-handed defensemen we have on the roster, Polak is probably the best skater.  The best "balance" would probably come from:

Phaneuf - Polak
Gardiner - Franson
Reilly - Robidas

PK:
Phaneuf - Polak
Robidas - Franson

PP:
Phaneuf - Reilly
Gardiner - Franson

Not that anyone should be particularly happy with the above   I'd much rather have Gardiner or Reilly beside Phaneuf logging the heaviest minutes 5 on 5.  That will probably only happen if we move Franson though.

 

[Kin]

As well, dmen who take offensive chances, as his talent dictates he should, are going to get caught periodically. Because of that, it's pretty rare that dmen like that will be perceived as great defensively. Folks will remember the odd play where they got burned.

Well, but there are offensive defensemen types who get burned on taking risks and there are offensive defensemen who never see PK time. It's a lot harder, for instance, to say that someone like Kaberle was a poor defensive hockey player when he was eating up short-handed time on a 100 point team.

Obviously a player with the talent to take offensive chances but good enough in their own end to kill penalties is a very high standard for a player to live up to but that is the difference between the top pairing guy I think Gardiner can be and a #4 type.

 

[bustaheims]

EDIT: Actually I'm going to change that to the 'Kaberle-syndrome' wherein an offensively gifted defenseman is criticized their entire career for being incapable defensively.

This. A millions times this. He doesn't play the way people traditionally perceive as being good defensively, but, he's much better than he gets credit for.