Highlander
Active member
At 8 million you can bury me!cabber24 said:
Leafs to place Murray on LTIR
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Dappleganger said:
The Spezza thing was largely a temporary move for cap shenanigan reasons. He was literally back on the roster immediately and didn't miss a single game due to do it. We might also see the Leafs do some weird roster moves at the end of the upcoming training camp in order to maximize their LTIR space but even then I doubt Reaves would be a guy that gets shuffled down.
The Spezza threat was legitimate, and everybody knew it. Nobody would believe that Reaves would just pass up $4mil over the next 3 seasons because he has to play for a team other than Toronto, who he has no loyalty to, next season. And earlier you asked "who in their right mind would want to pick up 3 years of Reaves"... well Toronto would. They did. And they won't risk another team thinking the same.
I do not understand whether or not LTIR helps their cap situation on Day 1 or not. Some people talk about their need to be compliant on Day 1 and then only on Day 2 they can put Muzzin and Murray on LTIR.
First of all, is that true? And if true, how in the world could they manage to do that?
First of all, is that true? And if true, how in the world could they manage to do that?
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
How about just running 11/7 with a 20 man roster and keeping Jarnkrok and Laff/Timmins? Personally I'd move Jarnkrok and go with a 23 man roster. I think Laff is just as good defensively and if given the chance would put up some decent numbers in the top 6 like Jarnkrok.CarltonTheBear said:
Bender said:
We have this end of year interview where he maintains he was good to go in the playoffs and anticipates a summer of preparation for next season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UawAWKQ2x0A&ab_channel=TorontoMapleLeafs
Then we have Elliott Friedman's report that the buyout maybe was not an option due to injury. Which is corroborated in part by the Leafs announcement today of putting him on LTIR. Friedman's report and the announcement corroborates they had some discussion with Murray.
Concussion symptoms back? Maybe
Hurt himself working out? Maybe
But it certainly didn't look like a career or season ending injury last May when he said he was fine to play in the playoffs AFTER the playoffs were over and he said he felt good to train over the summer for next season.
70 days later, he's on LTIR for the whole year or balance of his career? Anything is possible. But that result would be pretty unusual after his year end press conference.
As I Leafs fan who wasn't crazy about Murray, I hope he can stay on LTIR all year.
If I had to bet on it, the Leafs were counting on buying him out and Murray's camp played the injury card.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
I don't buy they're playing the injury card but we're going to find out at some point during the year...cw said:
Guilt Trip said:
My meaning of 'playing the injury card' isn't maintaining he is saying he is hurt when he isn't. It is simply saying the position he likely took was "you can't buy me out because I'm injured". For him to be placed on LTIR, it must be true that he claims he's hurt, he's got some medical backup and the Leafs are not disputing that he is hurt because they've gone along with his claim. The NHL rules are that if a player is hurt, he cannot be bought out. By claiming that he is hurt, saved him 1/3 of his $8 mil contract ($2.64 mil in buyout savings is now guaranteed with the balance of his $8 mil).
It is possible that we have a Robidas island arrangement. The Leafs could dispute his injury against a buyout because he was medically cleared at the end of the season and clear as of his year end press conference. So maybe the saw off is "we won't dispute your injury for the buyout and you collect the full $8 mil (the extra $2.64 buyout savings) and sit out for the season" Such an arrangement may well violate the CBA so no one is likely to admit to it. In the next two seasons, that probably represents the best financial reward because he won't make up the $2.64 mil buyout dollars over and above what he would earn on a contract this season. He can spend a year to get healthy for one last crack at the NHL and a contract supported by his year of medical rehab.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Yes, he backed up Woll in the last two playoff games:
https://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20222023/ES030215.HTM
https://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20222023/ES030215.HTM
He apparently cleared his year end medical.
And in his year end press conference, he indicated the injury was behind him - as he did when he dressed to backup Woll and he claimed he was fine for summer training.
To go from that to "he's out for the season on LTIR" seems like a big stretch.
More likely, he's on LTIR to start the season to help them get under the cap because he claimed an injury that prevented them from buying him out.
He was allegedly out with a concussion.
He has a history of concussions.
All he has to say is "I feel a little wobbly from my concussion(s)"
How can anyone prove he's lying?
That little claim avoided him losing $2.67 mil next season in buyout savings (less what he would make in a contract elsewhere - I can't see him making that up this and next season with his injury history)
A month into the season, he could say "I feel better now" and the Leafs are screwed capwise. What bottom feeder wants to bury $6 mil (Leafs owe of his $8 mil total) in cash for a chronically injured 26GP 3.01GAA, .901 save% (stats playing for a decent defensive team) goalie? They have no cap space to retain any.
Trading Marleau's $4.25 mil salary to the Canes cost them a 1st rounder so trading Murray's $6 mil under desperate circumstances might get pretty crazy - well north of a 1st rounder?
In terms of the Leafs "agreeing" to LTIR, what choice did they have?
Brutally hard to trade him.
Can't buy him out with him claiming injury.
They're up against the cap.
The thing that makes me nervous: the assumption that a goalie who was cleared to play and dressed in the playoffs, cleared his year end medical, declared his injuries were behind him in the playoffs and at the year end press conference is suddenly done for the season. I sincerely doubt that is likely. The Leafs aren't claiming that - they're just saying he won't be ready to start the season by putting him on LTIR. If he comes back for a few games, he screws them up unless one of the big five is on LTIR.
Maybe they can keep him on LTIR for half a season and then dump the $3 mil left for less than a 1st rounder (they're not as desperate).
I doubt this was their original plan for Murray.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Concussions can be tricky that way - especially when it comes to post-concussion syndrome. He might have felt fine for a few weeks - enough to get cleared to backup and pass a year-end physical - but suffered a major setback shortly after. As we've seen with many others in the past, once you've had a few concussions, it often doesn't take much to cause the next one or show how you didn't really recover from the last one.
ZBBM
Well-known member
bustaheims said:
Good point. And thanks cw for your reply.
I don't expect much from the league but I assume, maybe wrongly, that some league-appointed doc looks at situations like these and delivers an opinion as to the player's injury/"injury". Now, I am aware that docs are reluctant to criticize or contradict other docs when the subject person is not their patient. I guess there's all kinds of latitude at play here.
Just listening to Overdrive Frankie Corrado said both player and team basically have to arrive at this decision mutually. I really don't think Matt Murray, who's been constantly injured for years, would be amendable to go on LTIR to get his career back on track by doing proper rehabbing for a year only to decide mid-season that he's ok to play but also increase his chances of yet another injury by not taking the time necessary to let his body heal. This is probably the ideal scenario for everyone.
Michael said:
You can put players on LTIR during the summer, the Leafs actually needed to put Muzzin on LTIR right now otherwise they'd be over even the offseason salary cap (cap + 10%). And you don't need to be cap compliant on day 1 before putting players on LTIR. Otherwise like you said, teams would be kind of screwed.
The salary cap is currently $83.5mil. Murray and Muzzin's hits are combined $10.3mil. So the Leafs will want to build a starting roster that's as close to $93.8mil as possible, and then have M+M go on LTIR for the cap relief.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Carey Price and Shea Weber were both "cleared" to play in Montreal's 2021 Cup run and their careers were over afterward due to injuries. Ekblad and Montour were both "cleared" to play throughout Florida's Cup run despite having injuries for most of it that will keep them out for the start of this season. Tkachuk was "cleared" to play a game despite having a freaking broken sternum. Mark Stone was "cleared" to play coming directly off the LTIR for game 1 of the playoffs despite having basically a chronic injury that can have him back on LTIR at any given moment for the rest of his career.
I don't think we really need to act as if something might be fishy when a player with Matt Murray's long and detailed injury history gets placed on LTIR despite being "cleared" to sit on a bench for a game. The bar to be deemed "healthy" by a NHL doctor very obviously isn't all that high come playoff time. I was going to make a joke about how you basically just need to be able to put on your equipment but Tkachuk couldn't even do that when a doctor with a medical degree and everything said "yeah sure he's good to go".