Mark Fraser

[BlueWhiteBlood]

He played 2nd PK unit also, no?

Yup, on a pretty good pk too so that's something but it wouldn't have much influence on his +- and if anything it might allude to the weight of his even strength protection, in terms of who he was utilized against and where.

Your latter point is what I was referring to, I'm fair! 

 

[bustaheims]

For some reason I thought they had to have two hearings actually happen to engage that? I could easily be wrong, going from memory.

There's a lot of confusion out there about this. The 2 hearings thing relates to situations where the team elected to take a player to arbitration instead of giving them a QO (like the Canucks did with Raymond last summer). In that case, the team needed to have a 2nd arbitration filing to be eligible for the window. It's also not about hearings, but, filings. If a player files for arbitration, the team gets the 2nd buyout window, even if a hearing doesn't happen - as long as things get to the point where the hearing was scheduled.

 

[Frank E]

For some reason I thought they had to have two hearings actually happen to engage that? I could easily be wrong, going from memory.

There's a lot of confusion out there about this. The 2 hearings thing relates to situations where the team elected to take a player to arbitration instead of giving them a QO (like the Canucks did with Raymond last summer). In that case, the team needed to have a 2nd arbitration filing to be eligible for the window. It's also not about hearings, but, filings. If a player files for arbitration, the team gets the 2nd buyout window, even if a hearing doesn't happen - as long as things get to the point where the hearing was scheduled.

So I guess I'm out of the loop on this, because I thought you could buyout as many players as you wanted.  Only the 2 amnesty style ones were limited.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

For some reason I thought they had to have two hearings actually happen to engage that? I could easily be wrong, going from memory.

There's a lot of confusion out there about this. The 2 hearings thing relates to situations where the team elected to take a player to arbitration instead of giving them a QO (like the Canucks did with Raymond last summer). In that case, the team needed to have a 2nd arbitration filing to be eligible for the window. It's also not about hearings, but, filings. If a player files for arbitration, the team gets the 2nd buyout window, even if a hearing doesn't happen - as long as things get to the point where the hearing was scheduled.

It makes sense, as in Fraser's case, the team has to accept if it's under the 3.5 threshold. The team has to have something in the way of options, as in some cases, that 3.4 million could screw a teams cap if they were that close.

 

[bustaheims]

So I guess I'm out of the loop on this, because I thought you could buyout as many players as you wanted.  Only the 2 amnesty style ones were limited.

You can, but there's limited windows during which you can do so. Teams can also only execute 3 buyouts during the 2nd buyout window over the life of the CBA.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Evening chaps. Since all the other teams would know that we have salary cap issues and limited funds to renew two players then would we even get much value from trading Liles (or even Franson)?

I don't really buy it either, but I think it will be moot, as Liles will definitely leave via buyout if he's not traded in the next couple days. That's my bold prediction for the year! If there is no trade for him, I don't think Nonis will resist the buyout with it only being 875k on the cap for the first two years. It gets him completely out of this years cap decrease jam. That solves this years problems all in one fell swoop.

How long is the buyout window open for? Surely if we do that then it acknowledges the lack of any value for him on the trade market when teams know we have cap issues?

 

[Frank E]

So I guess I'm out of the loop on this, because I thought you could buyout as many players as you wanted.  Only the 2 amnesty style ones were limited.

You can, but there's limited windows during which you can do so. Teams can also only execute 3 buyouts during the 2nd buyout window over the life of the CBA.

Got it. 

 

[bustaheims]

How long is the buyout window open for? Surely if we do that then it acknowledges the lack of any value for him on the trade market when teams know we have cap issues?

It opens on the 3rd day after an agreement is reached or the arbitration decision is handed down and is open for 48 hours.

 

[Tigger]

For some reason I thought they had to have two hearings actually happen to engage that? I could easily be wrong, going from memory.

There's a lot of confusion out there about this. The 2 hearings thing relates to situations where the team elected to take a player to arbitration instead of giving them a QO (like the Canucks did with Raymond last summer). In that case, the team needed to have a 2nd arbitration filing to be eligible for the window. It's also not about hearings, but, filings. If a player files for arbitration, the team gets the 2nd buyout window, even if a hearing doesn't happen - as long as things get to the point where the hearing was scheduled.

Ok, cool, thanks!

 

[Champ Kind]

How long is the buyout window open for? Surely if we do that then it acknowledges the lack of any value for him on the trade market when teams know we have cap issues?

Maybe, but not necesarily.  It might be a timing issue.  Look at the Grabovski example: we could speculate whether Grabovski had any trade value, but the buy-out of his contract was more the result of Nonis wanting to sign Clarkson and Bozak, the window on the compliqance buy-outs closing, and the inability of the Leafs to close a deal quickly.  If this was September, I'm sure there might be more trade options for a player like Liles, after teams have had a chance to assess their rosters, weaknesses, etc. 

So, with the buy-out window so small, a buy-out of Liles could be as much a factor of timing as it is the ability to find a team who wants him.