Marleau being shopped around

[bustaheims]

I think generally speaking teams negotiate trades first and check with NTCs later. Why have the awkward conversation with Marleau about waiving his (and essentially telling him the club doesn't want him anymore) only to find out that no teams are interested. And of course if that's the case then Dubas probably isn't too thrilled this was leaked.

In most cases, I'd agree, but, Marleau is a veteran, and a smart guy. He can read the writing on the wall. He understands the Leafs' cap position, and that Dubas needs to be able to explore all possible options. I'm sure it would have been framed as such, and that Patty would understand that doesn't mean he's not wanted, but, that the business side of the game sometimes forces teams to move players they'd otherwise like to keep around.

 

[Kin]

The other thing is that Marleau is probably realistic about his spot on the team. If the Leafs have three guys at LW they're maybe more excited about than him(and with Hyman, Johnsson and Moore, they do) then he has to be open to the reality that he could be a 4th line/potential press box guy next year.

But just in general I think that there's a natural inclination for someone to not want to stay somewhere he's not particularly wanted. I know people tend to invoke when Sundin and Tucker didn't waive their deals but I think there's a big difference between "the team wants to actually use other players on our roster in your spot" and "we think it's in the organization's best long term interests to sell you for parts".

 

[ZBBM]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive. 

 

[Deebo]

Lebrun just did a Insider Trading segment where he says "We believe that he would open to waiving it for a trade to the LA Kings."

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-leafs-and-kings-have-discussed-potential-marleau-deal~1696554

 

[herman]

The NHL?s retirement home

 

[bustaheims]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

He?s not wanted by the fans. I?m not convinced he?s not wanted by management. His contract isn?t, but the player and the person? I?d think they?d be happy to have him around.

 

[ZBBM]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

He?s not wanted by the fans. I?m not convinced he?s not wanted by management. His contract isn?t, but the player and the person? I?d think they?d be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

 

[princedpw]

I?m trying to figure out what kind of deal would make sense for the kings.  The closest thing I could come up with would be something like Marleau for Phaneuf with the Kings retaining 2.125 million of Phaneuf?s deal.

Phaneuf has a cap hit of 5.25 for this season and next.
Marleau has 6.25 this year.

Cap hit wise:
Kings: 8.375 in 2019; 2.125 in 2020 (10.25 total)
Leafs: 3.125 in 2019; 3.125 in 2020

What this does is it avoids changing the total cap hit paid by either team.  For Toronto, it spreads Marleau?s hit over 2 years instead of one.  For the kings, they take an increase of 3.125 hit this year, but maybe they are tanking and so don?t care that much and save 3.125 the following year when they can begin to ramp up again.

If the deal is made after Marleau?s first bonus is paid then the Kings save a little real money too.

The money saved this year should be enough to give marner, kappy and Johnsson reasonable deals.  Probably not enough slack to upgrade the right side D.  Can Phaneuf play on the right?  Is he viable as a 3rd pairing guy?

 

[Guilt Trip]

Can Phaneuf play on the right?  Is he viable as a 3rd pairing guy?

Phaneuf played mostly on the right side with the Leafs if memory serves.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

The other thing is that Marleau is probably realistic about his spot on the team. If the Leafs have three guys at LW they're maybe more excited about than him(and with Hyman, Johnsson and Moore, they do) then he has to be open to the reality that he could be a 4th line/potential press box guy next year.

But just in general I think that there's a natural inclination for someone to not want to stay somewhere he's not particularly wanted. I know people tend to invoke when Sundin and Tucker didn't waive their deals but I think there's a big difference between "the team wants to actually use other players on our roster in your spot" and "we think it's in the organization's best long term interests to sell you for parts".

I like the logic... but, it feels like a story I tell myself to pursuade myself it?s all going to turn out the way that?s best for me.

Back when Marleau signed this deal, everyone said ? I wish it had been for 2 years instead of 3? with exactly this in mind. The catch was, he was only interested with the guaranteed 3rd year because he too could see this exact scenario playing out.

The Leafs aren?t going to ruthlessly oust him because he?s well loved by the players(and if we want credibility negotiating with the likes of Marner, trying to weasel out of obligations to his friends isn?t a great way to get it). He?s not going to volunteer for re-assignment, because this is exactly why he wanted year 3 - Marleau is more likely to accept a 4th line role in a contending Leafs than a retirement home.

Better of seeking our cap space for next year elsewhere.

 

[Kin]

Back when Marleau signed this deal, everyone said ? I wish it had been for 2 years instead of 3? with exactly this in mind. The catch was, he was only interested with the guaranteed 3rd year because he too could see this exact scenario playing out.

I think it's unlikely that when he made the third year a major point of negotiation that his thought process was "If my career starts reaching its natural conclusion, I want to be a Maple Leaf no matter what" rather than "I want to guarantee myself the most money possible".

The Leafs aren?t going to ruthlessly oust him because he?s well loved by the players(and if we want credibility negotiating with the likes of Marner, trying to weasel out of obligations to his friends isn?t a great way to get it). He?s not going to volunteer for re-assignment, because this is exactly why he wanted year 3 - Marleau is more likely to accept a 4th line role in a contending Leafs than a retirement home.

I'm not sure what credibility you think the Leafs need with Marner but I don't think there's anything ruthless or weaselly about asking Marleau what his preference is for next year if both he and the team are realistic about his place on the depth chart.

Marleau wanted the money a third year would guarantee him and via the NMC he wanted control over where he plays. There's really nothing to suggest that the one thing he wanted was to play for a contender considering he signed with a team coming off a year where they finished dead last in the league.

But even if that weren't true and his only goal was to be a Leaf, things can change in a couple years time. His family may not like the winters here, he may miss stuff out west...who knows? I didn't say he's definitely going to be traded, just that I think he's going to be realistic about what his role will be going forward and people have a natural inclination to not want to stay where they're not particularly wanted and I think the rumblings about the Leafs exploring a deal(which I don't think we'd hear if Marleau was deadset against a trade) speaks to that.

 

[L K]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

He?s not wanted by the fans. I?m not convinced he?s not wanted by management. His contract isn?t, but the player and the person? I?d think they?d be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

That's pretty stupid public management.  Marleau left an organization that would have been happy to have him back to come to Toronto.  They weren't forced to give him a 3rd year.  They weren't forced to sign him to a 6 million dollar contract.  They did it willingly and not being happy with the decline in his play when we all knew that this was the most likely outcome is on management.  Publicly shaming him to try and get him to waive his NTC isn't going to happen.

 

[Bates]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

He?s not wanted by the fans. I?m not convinced he?s not wanted by management. His contract isn?t, but the player and the person? I?d think they?d be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

That's pretty stupid public management.  Marleau left an organization that would have been happy to have him back to come to Toronto.  They weren't forced to give him a 3rd year.  They weren't forced to sign him to a 6 million dollar contract.  They did it willingly and not being happy with the decline in his play when we all knew that this was the most likely outcome is on management.  Publicly shaming him to try and get him to waive his NTC isn't going to happen.

The team doesn't have to, the media and online fans are doing it just fine.

 

[bustaheims]

I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

He?s not wanted by the fans. I?m not convinced he?s not wanted by management. His contract isn?t, but the player and the person? I?d think they?d be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

Maybe they have. We have no idea what conversations were had in private. There?s no need for it to be public.

 

[Frank E]

It's Dubas' job to have that conversation, given the implications.

I sure as hell hope he's spoken with Marleau about it.

 

[bustaheims]

It's Dubas' job to have that conversation, given the implications.

I sure as hell hope he's spoken with Marleau about it.

I'm confident he has.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.

 

[Bender]

Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.

He just isn't a fit. I think he knows that he just can't hack it anymore with better options on the wings already there.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Everything's coming up Dubas!

 

[lamajama]

Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.

He just isn't a fit. I think he knows that he just can't hack it anymore with better options on the wings already there.

I wonder how much attention he pays to his consecutive games streak because if I were him, I'd be thinking I'm not playing 82 games if I stay in Toronto