Mitch Marner - 2015 4th overall

[Heroic Shrimp]

Why can't he play in the AHL?

CHL rules that try to keep their star players in the league as long as possible.

Players drafted out of the CHL are ineligible to play for the AHL until they're 20. You might recall Kadri bouncing between the London Knights and the Leafs.

I think you're generally right about the age eligibility (although there are exceptions, say, for players whose junior team has been eliminated from the playoffs, or players who've played 4 full years of junior).  But the bouncing that Kadri did was between the Leafs and the Marlies.  Kadri only played one game for the Leafs while he was a London Knight, as an emergency call-up.

 

[herman]

Why can't he play in the AHL?

CHL rules that try to keep their star players in the league as long as possible.

Players drafted out of the CHL are ineligible to play for the AHL until they're 20. You might recall Kadri bouncing between the London Knights and the Leafs.

I think you're generally right about the age eligibility (although there are exceptions, say, for players whose junior team has been eliminated from the playoffs, or players who've played 4 full years of junior).  But the bouncing that Kadri did was between the Leafs and the Marlies.  Kadri only played one game for the Leafs while he was a London Knight, as an emergency call-up.

Ah yes, my mistake. Thank you for catching that.

 

[bustaheims]

I think you're generally right about the age eligibility (although there are exceptions, say, for players whose junior team has been eliminated from the playoffs, or players who've played 4 full years of junior).  But the bouncing that Kadri did was between the Leafs and the Marlies.  Kadri only played one game for the Leafs while he was a London Knight, as an emergency call-up.

And there are pretty specific circumstances about that - one being that the player cannot have signed his ELC yet, which Marner has.

 

[Kin]

So those CHL rules are stupid, right? The League should probably do something about them.

 

[bustaheims]

So those CHL rules are stupid, right? The League should probably do something about them.

They are pretty stupid. The cut off should be that the player can be assigned after their 18th birthday (since, I believe that's the minimum by the AHL's rules).

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So those CHL rules are stupid, right? The League should probably do something about them.

They are pretty stupid. The cut off should be that the player can be assigned after their 18th birthday (since, I believe that's the minimum by the AHL's rules).

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps limit it to NHL 1st rounders or give each NHL team one special exemption from the CHL per year, something like that. They'd be burning a lot of CHL bridges if they changed it the way you suggested.

 

[L K]

So those CHL rules are stupid, right? The League should probably do something about them.

They are pretty stupid. The cut off should be that the player can be assigned after their 18th birthday (since, I believe that's the minimum by the AHL's rules).

I would be fine if they made the rule Draft+1.  NHL only for 18 year olds and 19 year olds (according to draft age, not actual age) across the board can play in the AHL.

 

[Kin]

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps limit it to NHL 1st rounders or give each NHL team one special exemption from the CHL per year, something like that. They'd be burning a lot of CHL bridges if they changed it the way you suggested.

The NHL, as we're often told, is a multi-billion dollar business. They shouldn't really be leaving player development decisions up to the considerations of the financial viability of a developmental league.

Besides, what's the difference in the number of players between what you suggest and just a total freedom of teams to develop their picks as they want? How many post-1st round picks are so good that, like Marner, they're clearly not meant to be in Junior any more.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Wouldn't the financial stability of their main feeder league be of concern to the NHL?

 

[bustaheims]

Besides, what's the difference in the number of players between what you suggest and just a total freedom of teams to develop their picks as they want? How many post-1st round picks are so good that, like Marner, they're clearly not meant to be in Junior any more.

Exactly. There won't be enough players drafted outside the 1st round that teams will pull out of CHL leagues for it to be a concern. I mean, really, there won't be a lot of players drafted outside the top 10-15 spots in the draft that teams will feel the need to pull out of junior before they graduate.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Wouldn't the financial stability of their main feeder league be of concern to the NHL?

Also, I'd imagine if it was as simple as the NHL saying "we're the NHL and what we say goes" this agreement would have already been altered.

 

[Highlander]

Busta makes a lot of sense on this, this is one of handful of isolated cases and it makes sense for some kind of limited adjustment to the rule, even if the NHL team has to compensate the feeder league.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Wouldn't the financial stability of their main feeder league be of concern to the NHL?

Also, I'd imagine if it was as simple as the NHL saying "we're the NHL and what we say goes" this agreement would have already been altered.

That's kinda what I was driving at, it's definitely an inconvenient rule though.

Perhaps LK's proposal of draft+1 would be a reasonable compromise.

 

[Kin]

Wouldn't the financial stability of their main feeder league be of concern to the NHL?

Do you really want to make the case that losing the dozen or so players per year this would affect would mark a major shift in the viability of selling hockey in small Canadian cities? 

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

2 assists for Marner and a 3-0 lead so far for London over Erie tonight.

 

[bustaheims]

Do you really want to make the case that losing the dozen or so players per year this would affect would mark a major shift in the viability of selling hockey in small Canadian cities?

Seriously. If that were true, there should already be major concerns about the financial viability of the CHL.

 

[Kin]

Wouldn't the financial stability of their main feeder league be of concern to the NHL?

Also, I'd imagine if it was as simple as the NHL saying "we're the NHL and what we say goes" this agreement would have already been altered.

It's not that simple. I'm sure the CHL would say "well, we have a contractual relationship with these players" to which the NHL would say "If you fight on this, do you really want to make the case for the binding nature of a contract that pays players no money?" to which the CHL will say "well, maybe we start paying players and make you negotiate for their rights if you want them" to which the NHL would say "Let's see how many families sign their kids up for your league instead of the NCAA if you try to prevent them from making millions with us" at which point the CHL is essentially stuck. They'd either have to try to become the NHL's competition or give in. The CHL isn't substantially different from what minor league baseball used to be before MLB teams established the farm system or minor pro soccer leagues.

So why doesn't the NHL push on that? Because there'd be a ton of bad press with them "muscling in on Canadian hockey" and they do reap the benefits of the CHL's existence. But when I said the league should change it my primary concern there isn't with whether or not it threatens the status quo of a system that propogates itself. The NHL should be paying for their own development system the way MLB and big time soccer does. I appreciate that, ultimately, they don't want to but my use of "should" very rarely revolves around what keeps NHL owners lazy and happy.

But it's very much something they could do. And that's why you saw the OHL react as quickly as they did to the Flint situation. If the NHL decides that they aren't 100% comfortable with how their players are being developed they absolutely can put a stop to the relationship they have with the CHL unilaterally.

 

[ZBBM]

So those CHL rules are stupid, right? The League should probably do something about them.

They are pretty stupid. The cut off should be that the player can be assigned after their 18th birthday (since, I believe that's the minimum by the AHL's rules).

I don't disagree with you, but perhaps limit it to NHL 1st rounders or give each NHL team one special exemption from the CHL per year, something like that. They'd be burning a lot of CHL bridges if they changed it the way you suggested.

This is what I've suggested before too. And no doubt many before us. It makes the most sense.

 

[L K]

Yawn.  3 more assists tonight (2 primary).  115 points on the year.  He is 1 point away from 300 career OHL points ad 4 goals away from 100.

The Knights have two games left on the season.  A home and home against Erie.  Currently they hold a 2 point lead on 1st overall in the OHL over Erie.  Erie is going to beat the snot out of Owen Sound tomorrow so this is pretty much the best you could ask for a finish to the regular season.  Winner takes all for a considerably easier path through a very difficult Western Conference.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Yawn.  3 more assists tonight (2 primary).  115 points on the year.  He is 1 point away from 300 career OHL points ad 4 goals away from 100.

The Knights have two games left on the season.  A home and home against Erie.  Currently they hold a 2 point lead on 1st overall in the OHL over Erie.  Erie is going to beat the snot out of Owen Sound tomorrow so this is pretty much the best you could ask for a finish to the regular season.  Winner takes all for a considerably easier path through a very difficult Western Conference.

London beats Erie 4-2 tonight, Marner with 2 assists including this one:  https://streamable.com/u4od