Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:All I'm saying is that we were told last summer that the money trumps everything for big name UFAs. Then it turned out that sometimes it's bedsheets.
And also lots and lots of money.
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Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:All I'm saying is that we were told last summer that the money trumps everything for big name UFAs. Then it turned out that sometimes it's bedsheets.
mr grieves said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:This all assumes Marner wants to leave Toronto. And there are many reasons why he may well not want to.
Signing an offer sheet doesn't necessarily mean he wants to leave Toronto -- it might mean he wants to use what little leverage he has an RFA to force the team that holds his rights to pay him what he thinks he's worth.
Not that I think Dubas ought to look at it that way.
CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:All I'm saying is that we were told last summer that the money trumps everything for big name UFAs. Then it turned out that sometimes it's bedsheets.
And also lots and lots of money.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:But not the most money.
CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:But not the most money.
Sure, we still made him the 2nd highest paid player (at the time) in the league though.
Bill_Berg said:Nik the Trik said:Bill_Berg said:Nik the Trik said:Bill_Berg said:Well fair enough. I hope the GMs of other teams don't agree with you or we'll be looking at four firsts of unknown value.
Well, if Dubas agrees with me it won't matter as he'd match an offer sheet. Which, for the record, I think is the smart move. Match the offer sheet, let Marner play for a year or so and if you dont like his contract trade him while in the drivers seat.
Basically do what Nashville did with Weber. That worked out ok.
Depends on what the offersheet is too though. Or would you pay him max dollars?
Considering they could probably sign him tomorrow for Matthews money I'm not sure that's super relevant.
It will be if some team throws 13 million at him.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:But not the most money.
Sure, we still made him the 2nd highest paid player (at the time) in the league though.
I meant that he could have signed for more elsewhere -- wasn't that reportedly the case?
Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
Zee said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:But not the most money.
Sure, we still made him the 2nd highest paid player (at the time) in the league though.
I meant that he could have signed for more elsewhere -- wasn't that reportedly the case?
All reports were San Jose offered 7x13 = $91M
Bender said:Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
I have a hard time believing management wouldn't bite on that. I mean, why not bet on your stars? And if I were a player why wouldn't I bet on myself? Generally players of Marner's ilk will have better 3rd yr seasons than 2nd, so why sign a contract early?
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Zee said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:But not the most money.
Sure, we still made him the 2nd highest paid player (at the time) in the league though.
I meant that he could have signed for more elsewhere -- wasn't that reportedly the case?
All reports were San Jose offered 7x13 = $91M
Thanks Zee, I thought I remembered something like that.
Of course, nowadays there are plenty of things I think I remember that may not square exactly perfectly with so-called reality.
Bender said:Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
I have a hard time believing management wouldn't bite on that. I mean, why not bet on your stars? And if I were a player why wouldn't I bet on myself? Generally players of Marner's ilk will have better 3rd yr seasons than 2nd, so why sign a contract early?
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Bender said:Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
I have a hard time believing management wouldn't bite on that. I mean, why not bet on your stars? And if I were a player why wouldn't I bet on myself? Generally players of Marner's ilk will have better 3rd yr seasons than 2nd, so why sign a contract early?
My thinking all along is that the Leafs are going to have to overpay Marner, and probably significantly -- maybe up into the 11s.
Like Nik said awhile back in this thread, they set the clock running when they signed JT. They can't burn up his prime waiting for one of four 1sts to maybe develop into 80% of the player Marner is already, or using one or more of those 1sts to trade for that player.
Zee said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Bender said:Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
I have a hard time believing management wouldn't bite on that. I mean, why not bet on your stars? And if I were a player why wouldn't I bet on myself? Generally players of Marner's ilk will have better 3rd yr seasons than 2nd, so why sign a contract early?
My thinking all along is that the Leafs are going to have to overpay Marner, and probably significantly -- maybe up into the 11s.
Like Nik said awhile back in this thread, they set the clock running when they signed JT. They can't burn up his prime waiting for one of four 1sts to maybe develop into 80% of the player Marner is already, or using one or more of those 1sts to trade for that player.
That's fine, but they still have to call the bluff. The season doesn't start until October. Let him sit, if the imaginary offer sheet comes in at between 10-11 then the Leafs match. If no offer sheet comes in what leg does Marner have to stand on saying the "market" deems him worth that much?
Rob said:Zee said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Bender said:Zee said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
It's kind of funny that the contract people were complaining about turns out to be the best value deal of the 3. Imagine if the Leafs had signed Marner last summer at the reported 8x$9M before Nylander signed. Nylander would have demanded something closer to that number since the previous 2 seasons were comparable to Marner and he would have been justified in doing so.
I have a hard time believing management wouldn't bite on that. I mean, why not bet on your stars? And if I were a player why wouldn't I bet on myself? Generally players of Marner's ilk will have better 3rd yr seasons than 2nd, so why sign a contract early?
My thinking all along is that the Leafs are going to have to overpay Marner, and probably significantly -- maybe up into the 11s.
Like Nik said awhile back in this thread, they set the clock running when they signed JT. They can't burn up his prime waiting for one of four 1sts to maybe develop into 80% of the player Marner is already, or using one or more of those 1sts to trade for that player.
That's fine, but they still have to call the bluff. The season doesn't start until October. Let him sit, if the imaginary offer sheet comes in at between 10-11 then the Leafs match. If no offer sheet comes in what leg does Marner have to stand on saying the "market" deems him worth that much?
So do the Leafs want to play chicken with one of their star players? I'm still of the opinion that paying your star players is never a mistake. I'd rather "overpay" Marner than say someone like Kapanen.
Give Marner $11ish million a year and be done with it.
herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
princedpw said:herman said:The RFA salary ?system? artificially devalues performance when players are at their peak, and the UFA market overvalues current performance from past achievements.
It?s good that RFA contracts are trending up for the superstars. Sucks a bit that we have three in the vanguard, but this is the new reality and honestly, Nylander should?ve been paid more.
Why is that ?good?? Why do you want the wealthiest players to get wealthier at the expense of the less wealthy players?
princedpw said:Why is that ?good?? Why do you want the wealthiest players to get wealthier at the expense of the less wealthy players?
herman said:https://twitter.com/hailey_salvian/status/1141146953914441729
I?ve said this before and I?ll say it again: When the NHL put the entry-level system in place and put restrictions on what guys get, when you come out of entry-level, you only get certain rights. One of them is not salary arbitration. That was always initially viewed as a huge win for the owners. They?ve got no rights, basically. It?s withhold services or sign your contract. Everybody assumed that meant that these guys would be in a real tough spot. The exact opposite has happened. These players have become so good, so fast, and meant so much to their teams ? all across the NHL. They all want $8, 9, 10, 11 million.
If there was salary arbitration, I think the clubs would be happy. There would be a mechanism to settle it and you would have to throw out comparables. They?d go to arb and point to Mark Stone and Nikita Kucherov. ?Tell us why you should get more than $9.5 million.? He?d go, ?Auston Matthews.? And they?d go, ?We?ve got so many more comparables at $9.5. That?s what you deserve.?