Nylander is (possibly) getting called up

[Joe S.]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

 

[CarltonTheBear]

How many NHl games could he play wthout burning a year of his ELC - or would it go after even 1 NHl game?

He can play up to 9 games without burning a year.

 

[sickbeast]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

 

[McGarnagle]

1) I'd strongly doubt Nylander at this stage in his career is going to seriously compromise a tank

2) perhaps a real benefit of a call up would be to get a taste of the level he needs to train to over the summer, especially since the likely expectation is that he'll start with the leafs next season

3) if they want to, they can send him back at <9 games.

And selfishly, I'd like something of interest to watch in leafland until the playoffs.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

Well they haven't done it yet for one.  And it's been pointed out that burning a year off the ELC (and he wouldn't be burning a year towards UFA) could be beneficial when it comes to re-signing him off his ELC.  Also as others have pointed out, it may be beneficial for his development to get time in the NHL and get a taste of what it is like for next season and beyond.

You haven't provided a reason why it's bad for the team other than saying burning a year off the ELC is bad, full stop.

 

[Kin]

For anyone interested here's a simple version of my "why burning a ELC year might not be bad"

Let's say Nylander has this sort of career:

Year 1: 14 goals, 41 pts
Year 2: 19 goals, 54 pts
Year 3: 24 goals, 68 pts

Those seem like pretty reasonable totals, right? So do you want to sign Nylander to a long term extension after year 2 or year 3?

If you burn off a ELC year now you get to negotiate that deal after year 2. I think that could represent a significant savings.

But even then, the cap concern is a little exaggerated. Let's say that Nylander, regardless of when it's negotiated, signs a 6 year, 33 million dollar extension.

If you don't burn off a year of his ELC his cap hit looks like this

ELC, ELC, ELC, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5

If you do burn it off, it's this

ELC, ELC, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, UFA

The only years you have any sort of savings are in year three and year 8. So 2018-2019 and then 2024-25. I don't think the Leafs will need the cap space in 18-19 and who knows what Nylander will want 9 years from now but I don't think that should decide how you want to develop him.

 

[rdowdall]

If it happens I'm generally pro the move. We've talked on the board before about how burning a year of the ELC might actually be better for signing him to an extension when the time comes and I don't think the AHL is an inherently safer situation in terms of health.

More over though I think it could be really good for Nylander's development. He's spent the whole year in a league he's almost certainly too good for. Being in the NHL next year seems like an inevitability. It might be good for him to find out he still needs to put in a lot of work to be good at the NHL level. We want him dedicated to getting stronger over the off-season. Getting knocked on his butt by NHLers could help with that. 

Hypothetically if the Leafs are also going to have a big influx of youth - Leipsic, Leivo, Nylander, Marner(?), Matthews(?), having a little more NHL experience might not be a terrible thing. Nylander is having a better season than Leipsic and they are both in their 2nd professional season.

Also someone posted in the Sheldon Keefe thread under prospects that Nylander didn't seem to have the same compete level.  Could be the concussion, or it could be that he is bored in the league he is in.

While I appreciate individual feedback, it's still the feedback of a poster on an internet forum.  I'm guilty of it when I provide updates on the OHL/Knights players or if I go to a game.  It was feedback on a single game.  A 10 goal game from the team.  That's not really the best way to evaluate the "compete level"....and man do I hate that concept.  Compete level is relative to the player.  Nylander isn't a bump and grind player.

I think it depends on what you mean by compete level.  For me compete level is the fire to change the outcome of the game.  Not necessarily running around throwing hits, but that determination to make an impact.  I think of that game where Sundin had 7 points against Florida.  He didn't want to lose that game.  I think of Yzerman playing on a broken leg. 

Your right, it's one game, which was a blowout.  I shouldn't read anything in to it.  I get concerned with players that have had concussions.

But it's basically impossible to determine a players "fire to change the outcome of a game" or at least in any consistent way.

Probably not until their career is over anyways.

 

[Kin]

Another thing to consider re: ELCs

There's a chance the Leafs add Nylander, Marner and this year's #1 pick to the lineup next year. Do we want those guys all needing extensions at the same time? Or do we want to stagger it so the team's cap number doesn't balloon with all of the raises at once?

 

[sickbeast]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

Well they haven't done it yet for one.  And it's been pointed out that burning a year off the ELC (and he wouldn't be burning a year towards UFA) could be beneficial when it comes to re-signing him off his ELC.  Also as others have pointed out, it may be beneficial for his development to get time in the NHL and get a taste of what it is like for next season and beyond.

You haven't provided a reason why it's bad for the team other than saying burning a year off the ELC is bad, full stop.

I did give a reason. It wastes a lot of money and it wastes a lot of cap space.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

Well they haven't done it yet for one.  And it's been pointed out that burning a year off the ELC (and he wouldn't be burning a year towards UFA) could be beneficial when it comes to re-signing him off his ELC.  Also as others have pointed out, it may be beneficial for his development to get time in the NHL and get a taste of what it is like for next season and beyond.

You haven't provided a reason why it's bad for the team other than saying burning a year off the ELC is bad, full stop.

I did give a reason. It wastes a lot of money and it wastes a lot of cap space.

See that's the thing, people have shown you, very reasonably how that might not be the case.

Your response has essentially been "LOUD NOISES" you've provided no rebuttal when presented with an alternative possibility.

 

[Joe S.]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

I'm not saying it's a good reason or bad reason,  I just thought the info was relevant to the discussion.

 

[L K]

1) I'd strongly doubt Nylander at this stage in his career is going to seriously compromise a tank

2) perhaps a real benefit of a call up would be to get a taste of the level he needs to train to over the summer, especially since the likely expectation is that he'll start with the leafs next season

3) if they want to, they can send him back at <9 games.

And selfishly, I'd like something of interest to watch in leafland until the playoffs.

Best case scenario realistically is he replaces JVR's production and quite frankly if he outperforms .5-.6 PPG status that should just make us extremely excited about the future with Nylander/Marner/2016 pick

 

[sickbeast]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/11/why-your-team-is-going-to-keep-burning-entry-level-contract-years-so-stop-complaining-about-it-already

That's still not a good reason.  The Leafs don't need Nylander right now.  They are trying to tank.  There is no point to this.  They are burning a year off his ELC for no good reason at all.

Well they haven't done it yet for one.  And it's been pointed out that burning a year off the ELC (and he wouldn't be burning a year towards UFA) could be beneficial when it comes to re-signing him off his ELC.  Also as others have pointed out, it may be beneficial for his development to get time in the NHL and get a taste of what it is like for next season and beyond.

You haven't provided a reason why it's bad for the team other than saying burning a year off the ELC is bad, full stop.

I did give a reason. It wastes a lot of money and it wastes a lot of cap space.

See that's the thing, people have shown you, very reasonably how that might not be the case.

Your response has essentially been "LOUD NOISES" you've provided no rebuttal when presented with an alternative possibility.

Loud noises? You can hear me? I do see some logic in some of your guys explanations however I think my tank now and save cap space argument is much better. I don't agree with you guys. Call that loud noises if you want. I'm a quiet guy actually.

 

[herman]

Re: Nylander's 'compete level' from the game I saw: it was a function of my elevated expectations, score effects, and small sample size. Nylander will be more than fine wherever he plays. There were moments where he completely controlled a shift (see his goal) and I thought he'd do it more often. The second period was PK fest. The third period was already overkill.

 

[rdowdall]

Re: Nylander's 'compete level' from the game I saw: it was a function of my elevated expectations, score effects, and small sample size. Nylander will be more than fine wherever he plays. There were moments where he completely controlled a shift (see his goal) and I thought he'd do it more often. The second period was PK fest. The third period was already overkill.

Ah, I must have misunderstood.  The way I read it, it sounded like he looked disinterested.

 

[herman]

Re: Nylander's 'compete level' from the game I saw: it was a function of my elevated expectations, score effects, and small sample size. Nylander will be more than fine wherever he plays. There were moments where he completely controlled a shift (see his goal) and I thought he'd do it more often. The second period was PK fest. The third period was already overkill.

Ah, I must have misunderstood.  The way I read it, it sounded like he looked disinterested.

He certainly looked frustrated a few times coming back to the bench. He didn't have a great game, but still netted two points.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Friedman just said Nylander may be in the lineup tonight.

EDIT: Clearly to let Stamkos have a glimpse at a future linemate.

 

[ZBBM]

Here's what I see posted on tsn:

Keep updated on all the injury news and roster moves from around the NHL with daily Ice Chips.
Toronto Maple Leafs

Forwards William Nylander, Kasperi Kapanen, Nikita Soshnikov, Zach Hyman, and Ben Smith were recalled from the Toronto Marlies (AHL). In addition, forwards Mark Arcobello, Brendan Leipsic and Josh Leivo were loaned to the Marlies. - Team Release

Projected Lines vs. Lightning

Komarov - Kadri - Parenteau
Grabner - Nylander - Hyman
Greening - Holland - Kapanen
Soshnikov - Smith - Boyes

Hunwick - Rielly
Gardiner - Corrado
Marincin - Percy

Sparks starts
‎Bernier

Michalek also on the ice, but not in line rushes

So looks like we'll see Kasperibot, Soshnikov, Hyman etc. too.

 

[herman]

[tweet]704782791716765697[/tweet]

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Another good Laich fact: He played with Willie's dad in Washington for a couple of seasons.