Nylander signing 8-year, $92mil extension

[Zee]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

 

[caver]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Canadian taxes must play into this to a degree...

 

[azzurri63]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Zee I think you'll see that change. All timing I think, salaries keep climbing. Draisaitl's contract expires at the end of next season. If he doesn't leave the Oilers he'll make more than Willy and probably be up there around Matthews. Just the nature of the beast but I hear ya I feel the same we always seem to overpay. Other thing is they get money up front plus the usual NMC. Why does the player have to have everything? These guys don't want to waive their NMC teams are handcuffed. I don't get why the players have to have full control. You want top dollars and aren't living up to the contract then team should be able to trade you at any given time.

 

[lamajama]

2 thoughts - 1st - I dislike "career years" in a contract year and 2nd Marner has a no move
so he either signs, agrees to a trade (why would he unless it's a sign and trade) or walks
and I have zero confidence in the Leafs making an equitable deal for both the player and the team.

The whole root of this issue was Dubas caving in to Marner in particular. Matthews despite
the number I have no "problems" with his deal.

 

[azzurri63]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Canadian taxes must play into this to a degree...

Ya big time it's a problem I believe. Not sure how it works for different teams but you also have to remember these guys are paid in US funds. For instance a guy like Tavares is making 11 million but actually in Canadian dollars he's making like 14-15 million. Half of that is going to taxes so in actuality he's bringing home about 7-7.5 million Canadian. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.

 

[bustaheims]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Not a lot of teams have as much elite talent as the Leafs do right now. Depth is an issue, but the Leafs? high end talent is second to none.

 

[bustaheims]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Canadian taxes must play into this to a degree...

Ya big time it's a problem I believe. Not sure how it works for different teams but you also have to remember these guys are paid in US funds. For instance a guy like Tavares is making 11 million but actually in Canadian dollars he's making like 14-15 million. Half of that is going to taxes so in actuality he's bringing home about 7-7.5 million Canadian. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.

Any agency worth being represented by has financial planners, accountants, and tax specialists that make the tax differences basically moot. The tax thing is a big red herring pushed to create a narrative.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I really don't understand the negotiating stance the Leafs took with this deal.

If the player was willing to take less than expected then give him the NTC.  If you are paying him top dollar than he loses the NTC.  Nylander got both.

If the deal is 8 then the player takes less as they decline in ability due to age or if they want top dollar then they get fewer years so that they aren't given superstar money as a 2nd or 3rd line player.  Nylander got both.

The makeup of a Stanley Cup team is NOT a mystery.  It has been consistent for decades with only a few exceptions over that whole time.  How close is Toronto to a Stanley Cup team??

Not sure if they will win the Cup with this core 4...EVER.

I am shocked that the Leafs feel Matthews and Nylander have signed the best deal possible to build a Stanley Cup champion.  All 4 boys have FULL NTCs so Leaf fans are stuck with that salary structure.

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

We care not for such trivialities. 

We are sufficiently suffonsified watching Matthews and Nylander for 82 games make opposing goaltenders look silly.

SILLY. 

 

[cabber24]

Just enjoy those tic-tac-toe plays, Nylanders BING!-and-in-shots and Matthews' whip, it's a spectacle, not a contender.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

We care not for such trivialities. 

We are sufficiently suffonsified watching Matthews and Nylander for 82 games make opposing goaltenders look silly.

SILLY. 

Just enjoy those tic-tac-toe plays, Nylanders BING!-and-in-shots and Matthews' whip, it's a spectacle, not a contender.

I must say I can't argue with that.   

 

[azzurri63]

I really don't understand the negotiating stance the Leafs took with this deal.

If the player was willing to take less than expected then give him the NTC.  If you are paying him top dollar than he loses the NTC.  Nylander got both.

If the deal is 8 then the player takes less as they decline in ability due to age or if they want top dollar then they get fewer years so that they aren't given superstar money as a 2nd or 3rd line player.  Nylander got both.

The makeup of a Stanley Cup team is NOT a mystery.  It has been consistent for decades with only a few exceptions over that whole time.  How close is Toronto to a Stanley Cup team??

Not sure if they will win the Cup with this core 4...EVER.

I am shocked that the Leafs feel Matthews and Nylander have signed the best deal possible to build a Stanley Cup champion.  All 4 boys have FULL NTCs so Leaf fans are stuck with that salary structure.

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

Tavares aside as he was a high profile free agent and supposedly took less Reilly is the only guy in my opinion who took less. The other 3 did none whatsoever and it's going to get worse. You know my stance with this core. Nothings changed. In my opinion best route for the Leafs is wait for Tavares contract to come off the books and replace him with help in other areas and try and ship Marner off and do the same. Help build a decent D core and maybe a solid netminder unless they feel Woll and possibly Hildeby are the answers.

 

[azzurri63]

Willy played himself into this contract but the real question is how do the Leafs manage to have 4 guys in the top 10 in league salary where no other team has more than 1 guy?  Are other markets better at convincing players to take a bit less?  It's difficult to fill out a good roster when half the cap is tied up in 4 guys.

Not a lot of teams have as much elite talent as the Leafs do right now. Depth is an issue, but the Leafs? high end talent is second to none.

Nobody here is going to argue that the question is what has it gotten them other than regular season success? At some point you gotta figure a change in thinking is needed. How long do you have to wait before you realize it ain't working?

 

[Zee]

2 thoughts - 1st - I dislike "career years" in a contract year and 2nd Marner has a no move
so he either signs, agrees to a trade (why would he unless it's a sign and trade) or walks
and I have zero confidence in the Leafs making an equitable deal for both the player and the team.

The whole root of this issue was Dubas caving in to Marner in particular. Matthews despite
the number I have no "problems" with his deal.

I had no problems with the Matthews cap hit when it was signed, the only issue I saw was term.  Leafs were unable to get him to commit to an 8 year deal when both McDavid and Eichel did.  Why is that important?  Because instead of a raise to 13.25M next year he'd still be on 11.6 for another 3 seasons.  If he did 8, they probably strong arm Marner into 8 as well, so then the cap looks much better for the next 3 seasons as the ceiling goes up.

 

[cabber24]

I really don't understand the negotiating stance the Leafs took with this deal.

If the player was willing to take less than expected then give him the NTC.  If you are paying him top dollar than he loses the NTC.  Nylander got both.

If the deal is 8 then the player takes less as they decline in ability due to age or if they want top dollar then they get fewer years so that they aren't given superstar money as a 2nd or 3rd line player.  Nylander got both.

The makeup of a Stanley Cup team is NOT a mystery.  It has been consistent for decades with only a few exceptions over that whole time.  How close is Toronto to a Stanley Cup team??

Not sure if they will win the Cup with this core 4...EVER.

I am shocked that the Leafs feel Matthews and Nylander have signed the best deal possible to build a Stanley Cup champion.  All 4 boys have FULL NTCs so Leaf fans are stuck with that salary structure.

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

Tavares aside as he was a high profile free agent and supposedly took less Reilly is the only guy in my opinion who took less. The other 3 did non whatsoever and it's going to get worse. You know my stance with this core. Nothings changed. In my opinion best route for the Leafs is wait for Tavares contract to come off the books and replace him with help in other areas and try and ship Marner off and do the same. Help build a decent D core and maybe a solid netminder unless they feel Woll and possibly Hildeby are the answers.

Realistically we won't be able to reallocate adequately until the 25/26 season.

Should almost be grooming/developing the bottom 6 guys and defense now. Play the kids much more and give them meaningful minutes. Pair Timothy with Reilly now, they could be the only 2 D still around in a couple of seasons.

 

[Bender]

I really don't understand the negotiating stance the Leafs took with this deal.

If the player was willing to take less than expected then give him the NTC.  If you are paying him top dollar than he loses the NTC.  Nylander got both.

If the deal is 8 then the player takes less as they decline in ability due to age or if they want top dollar then they get fewer years so that they aren't given superstar money as a 2nd or 3rd line player.  Nylander got both.

The makeup of a Stanley Cup team is NOT a mystery.  It has been consistent for decades with only a few exceptions over that whole time.  How close is Toronto to a Stanley Cup team??

Not sure if they will win the Cup with this core 4...EVER.

I am shocked that the Leafs feel Matthews and Nylander have signed the best deal possible to build a Stanley Cup champion.  All 4 boys have FULL NTCs so Leaf fans are stuck with that salary structure.

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

I don't think anyone thinks this is a deal for the Leafs, but we have to be hopeful otherwise what's the point? Also realistically what was the alternative? The Leafs had no leverage. If Nylander has an average year we'd pay him $10m-$10.5 and people wouldn't bat an eye. Unfortunately for us he's having a contract year. Maybe he doesn't make more elsewhere but so what? He could still just walk somewhere else because he feels like it and maybe in a lower tax state etc.

Let's see what we do with Marner & Tavares.

 

[L K]

I think the important question is how do the leafs fit in mcdavid?s contract now.

The good old hometown discount that the Leafs always totally get guys like him to take.

If Nylander can be a 40 goal guy for the next 5 years, then sure all good and everything...but man, they're really going to have to develop some prospects to be able to insert into the lineup to fill out this roster moving forward.

But now that he has his new deal, can they talk him into playing 2C for a good while? 

It makes this deadline really interesting.  They need to start hitting on more draft picks and its hard to do that when you have three of them.  Treliving's draft record in Calgary is really hit or miss.  He has some nice players and a lot of misses.  We don't have Tampa's luck with guys coming out the wazoo to replace guys over and over again for 5 years.

 

[cw]

The scenario of losing him for nothing is off the table.
He's one of the most entertaining talents to watch if not the most entertaining in the NHL.
He's a good performer and difficult to stop in the playoffs.
He seems to function well in this media environment - seems unflappable.
He's 69th highest paid (cap hit) forward in the league this year but many of his offensive stats over the last six years exceed that - like being top 4 in league ppg this year so far and 19th in ppg among forwards over the last three years, in top 30 at 5 on 5 scoring per minute, etc.
That is a fair list to be grateful for.


As for the impact on the team going forward, I'm still mulling it over.
The dollars are likely to look more reasonable in the earlier years to come as other players leap frog over this contract.
This year and next could be quite challenging to put a top contender roster together due to cap constraints and the depletion of their prospects and draft picks from prior trades.

 

[Arn]

Class.

8 more years of watching Nylander. Excellent.


As far as the cap hit, I really resent the whole hard cap anyway. Why should we dislike players for not taking less money than they?re worth cos the owners decided they wanted some kind of parity to keep such behemoths of hockey such as Arizona going.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

I really don't understand the negotiating stance the Leafs took with this deal.

If the player was willing to take less than expected then give him the NTC.  If you are paying him top dollar than he loses the NTC.  Nylander got both.

If the deal is 8 then the player takes less as they decline in ability due to age or if they want top dollar then they get fewer years so that they aren't given superstar money as a 2nd or 3rd line player.  Nylander got both.

The makeup of a Stanley Cup team is NOT a mystery.  It has been consistent for decades with only a few exceptions over that whole time.  How close is Toronto to a Stanley Cup team??

Not sure if they will win the Cup with this core 4...EVER.

I am shocked that the Leafs feel Matthews and Nylander have signed the best deal possible to build a Stanley Cup champion.  All 4 boys have FULL NTCs so Leaf fans are stuck with that salary structure.

Some of you folks seem hopeful about the Leafs winning a Cup with the contracts being handed out.

I don't think anyone thinks this is a deal for the Leafs, but we have to be hopeful otherwise what's the point? Also realistically what was the alternative? The Leafs had no leverage. If Nylander has an average year we'd pay him $10m-$10.5 and people wouldn't bat an eye. Unfortunately for us he's having a contract year. Maybe he doesn't make more elsewhere but so what? He could still just walk somewhere else because he feels like it and maybe in a lower tax state etc.

Let's see what we do with Marner & Tavares.

With Marner it will almost certainly be a similar story - pay him the increase that he wants or he'll go to free agency. The question is - at what AAV do the Leafs walk away? And can they afford to walk away since there will be no return for him other than cap space (still a valuable asset)?