Nylander signs 6-year contract

[cabber24]

I don't get the NHLPA comment? In order for it to be processed, they need it by 4:30?

 

[herman]

I missed it. Is there a place to watch it online?

MLHS Transcript

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Lots and lots of GMs have said this and then went back on it. But I feel like Dubas is a lot more likely to stick to it than most.

I'm really not a fan of this, assuming he said it.

 

[Kin]

I don't get the NHLPA comment? In order for it to be processed, they need it by 4:30?

They may have said that so that there was some wiggle room to get everything wrapped by the actual deadline.

 

[Kin]

I'm really not a fan of this, assuming he said it.

I don't think it matters much. The odds of Dubas ever wanting to move Nylander are  probably pretty low and any change can be communicated to Nylander beforehand.

 

[Zee]

I am very happy that Nylander is staying in Toronto but I do sort of feel like Leafs fans would be wise to not lean too heavily on the idea that winning in Toronto is somehow better than winning somewhere else. I feel like that takes us uncomfortably close to being the sort of caricature some people say we are. It's the Cup, if you win it it's probably pretty terrific no matter where.

For the player sure, but the overall reaction of the market it wouldn't be the same. Win a Cup in Toronto and the entire country knows who you are, you're a celebrity and legend especially in Toronto for all time. Win a Cup in Arizona, would most people on the street even recognize you the week after? I doubt it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

For the player sure, but the overall reaction of the market it wouldn't be the same. Win a Cup in Toronto and the entire country knows who you are, you're a celebrity and legend especially in Toronto for all time. Win a Cup in Arizona, would most people on the street even recognize you the week after? I doubt it.

I think that's already more or less how the markets treat the players though. Winning a Cup wouldn't really change how many people in Toronto/Canada know who Willy Nylander is.

 

[Zee]

For the player sure, but the overall reaction of the market it wouldn't be the same. Win a Cup in Toronto and the entire country knows who you are, you're a celebrity and legend especially in Toronto for all time. Win a Cup in Arizona, would most people on the street even recognize you the week after? I doubt it.

I think that's already more or less how the markets treat the players though. Winning a Cup wouldn't really change how many people in Toronto/Canada know who Willy Nylander is.

Well, we've never seen a Cup winner in our lifetimes (apologies to the way older than me guys in here) so I can only imagine how popular the players would be if we ever won.  A buddy of mine, total geek who knows nothing about hockey and doesn't follow it at all, even he knows who Sundin is because of those conference finals runs the Leafs had back in the 2000s

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm really not a fan of this, assuming he said it.

I don't think it matters much. The odds of Dubas ever wanting to move Nylander are  probably pretty low and any change can be communicated to Nylander beforehand.

I think it matters a great deal. A lot can happen in 6 years, and any "change that can be communicated later" is pretty cavalier way of saying that dubas can break his word without consequence to his reputation and the organization's by proxy.

And on top of this, every other player coming out of entry level will attempt to leverage the same commitment, since it's been on the table once. Either Dubas screwed up by offering it, or screwed up royally with Nylander announcing it.

 

[Kin]

For the player sure, but the overall reaction of the market it wouldn't be the same. Win a Cup in Toronto and the entire country knows who you are, you're a celebrity and legend especially in Toronto for all time. Win a Cup in Arizona, would most people on the street even recognize you the week after? I doubt it.

Leaving aside the fact that I'm sure some players would view that as a net positive, I don't even really believe that's true. The idea that a cup win would isolate a player from the sort of thing that happened to Sundin at the end of his career doesn't wash with me.

Winning the cup would certainly be a lot of fun and I'm sure fans would be excited but I feel like a little while later fans would go right back to wanting to win another cup and having the same sort of transactional relationship with the players we just saw throughout the Nylander negotiating process.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think it matters a great deal. A lot can happen in 6 years, and any "change that can be communicated later" is pretty cavalier way of saying that dubas can break his word without consequence to his reputation and the organization's by proxy.

I think if the Leafs are ever in a position where they're forced to trade Nylander then things have probably gone catastrophically wrong and it wouldn't be Dubas making that trade, it'd be his replacement.

And on top of this, every other player coming out of entry level will attempt to leverage the same commitment, since it's been on the table once. Either Dubas screwed up by offering it, or screwed up royally with Nylander announcing it.

I mean yeah he's going to give the same commitment to Matthews or Marner, but it's not like he's going to make that promise to Kapanen and Johnsson.

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/1069705361874132992

Lots and lots of GMs have said this and then went back on it. But I feel like Dubas is a lot more likely to stick to it than most.

Shanahan: "I've temporarily replaced Kyle as GM as he's taking care of family issues. Oh and I've traded Nylander.  Kyle will resume GM duties next week"

 

[Kin]

I think it matters a great deal. A lot can happen in 6 years, and any "change that can be communicated later" is pretty cavalier way of saying that dubas can break his word without consequence to his reputation and the organization's by proxy.

But that's just it. A lot can happen in 6 years. Nylander may want out. Dubas may think the team should move on and Nylander is open to the idea. Both of those things seem more likely than everything going great but Dubas wanting to trade him anyway so the chances of Dubas wanting to trade Nylander and Nylander being really upset by the possibility seems pretty remote.

And on top of this, every other player coming out of entry level will attempt to leverage the same commitment, since it's been on the table once.

I don't think that's true at all. Forgetting Marner and Matthews, who it's probably true of anyway, you think Kapanen will say "You're not going to trade me, right?" and Dubas will...what? Feel morally obligated to make the same promise? Or if he doesn't than Kapanen will feel offended? Or think that the promise to Nylander represents some new organizational policy?

This doesn't bind anyone's hands.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

And on top of this, every other player coming out of entry level will attempt to leverage the same commitment, since it's been on the table once. Either Dubas screwed up by offering it, or screwed up royally with Nylander announcing it.

I mean yeah he's going to give the same commitment to Matthews or Marner, but it's not like he's going to make that promise to Kapanen and Johnsson.

I don't know about that, at least with Kapanen, especially with his supposed friendship with Nylander. He might be very much expecting the same treatment. At the very least now, with Nylander publicly announcing it, it will be a point of negotiation that wasn't necessary to introduce. Fine, won't offer me a verbal no trade like Nylander? Then give me another $500K.  And what happens when Sandin comes out of entry level, or other high value assets? Even if it happens with just the big 3 (which I doubt) I can see many scenarios where it would be wise to keep flexibility.

 

[Kin]

So Kapanen is going to think that because he's friends with Nylander, Dubas is somehow obligated to prize him as highly as Nylander?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

So Kapanen is going to think that because he's friends with Nylander, Dubas is somehow obligated to prize him as highly as Nylander?

Absolutely he's not. But he's now negotiating with players who now have more to negotiate back with thanks to Nylander's proclamation.

As an aside, has a player in the NHL ever come out of an entry level deal announcing a verbal no trade clause as part of his offer before?

 

[Kin]

Absolutely he's not. But he's now negotiating with players who now have more to negotiate back with.

Yeah, I still don't really see how that would work. Kapanen will ask "Do you promise not to trade me?" and Dubas will say no and Kapanen will...what? What negotiating leverage does this give Kapanen? Why is it especially true because Kapanen and Nylander are pals?

It's not like actual NMCs or NTCs being given to some high end free agents mean that every free agent thinks they're entitled to one or somehow has more weight to negotiate one with.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As an aside, has a player in the NHL ever come out of an entry level deal announcing a verbal no trade clause as part of his offer before?

I would say that these sort of promises/guarantees are probably more common than you'd think for star RFAs who aren't eligible for NTCs yet. Maybe you can argue that Nylander shouldn't have said anything, but I'd assume he was answering a pretty direct question about whether he was worried he would be traded and it's not exactly like Dubas hasn't said he had no intention of trading Nylander like a dozen times since he became GM.

 

[Kin]

I would say that these sort of promises/guarantees are probably more common than you'd think for star RFAs who aren't eligible for NTCs yet. Maybe you can argue that Nylander shouldn't have said anything, but I'd assume he was answering a pretty direct question about whether he was worried he would be traded and it's not exactly like Dubas hasn't said he had no intention of trading Nylander like a dozen times since he became GM.

Yeah, I feel like ultimately this is a direct response to the idea that was floated around by people like Friedman that Dubas was going to be signing him just to trade him after the big payouts. If Nylander asked Dubas about that, Dubas was obligated to say something and anything other than a pretty firm commitment to keep Nylander around could have resulted in less enthusiasm for a long-term deal.

 

[Fanatic]

I am very happy that Nylander is staying in Toronto but I do sort of feel like Leafs fans would be wise to not lean too heavily on the idea that winning in Toronto is somehow better than winning somewhere else. I feel like that takes us uncomfortably close to being the sort of caricature some people say we are. It's the Cup, if you win it it's probably pretty terrific no matter where.

Maybe, but was the Cubs World Series win not more exciting than the Royals the year before or the Astros the year after?

The Leafs have been without for a long time, in spite of a massive loyal fan base. Shanny talked about how much it would mean to win in Toronto as well. There?s good reason why people say it.