Official Tank Nation Topic

[lamajama]

Minnesota and TB win.

Leafs now in 5th spot. 

1st pick overall a possibility! Going down harder then the friggin Hindenburg... very impressive.

There's no catching Columbus...

Could in theory win the draft lottery though.  And if there is a franchise with the luck to do it, it is the Leafs.

Oi!

If the Leafs finish with a lottery pick all I can hope is that there's some truth that either Edmonton or Columbus are interested in switching spots to that end without costing an arm and a leg, hoping for luck? grrrrrrrr...

It certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, especially if they want a certain player and do one of those 'switch picks with the understanding our guy isn't going to be taken' things.

I really think that CBJ is loathe to try another Russian and would be very open to swapping a #1 for a #3-4-5 without an awful lot going with it from eg the Leafs. As good as these 3 Russians are supposed to be, I am positive that the teams picking early are nervous. If they were non-Russian I doubt there would be any whispers at all of swapping.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

Have the Leafs (or Burke specifically) ever said anything about the Russians in the draft?  Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

 

[Redleaf]

Minnesota and TB win.

Leafs now in 5th spot. 

1st pick overall a possibility! Going down harder then the friggin Hindenburg... very impressive.

There's no catching Columbus...

Could in theory win the draft lottery though.  And if there is a franchise with the luck to do it, it is the Leafs.

I have no idea what "luck" your talking about? I feel rather unlucky being a Leaf fan.

Yeah. The Leafs will win the lottery, pick 1st overall, and then the player they select turns out to be the biggest bust since Alexandre Daigle. Now thats the luck of the Leafs! 

 

[Kaberle15]

A good night for the tank nation, the Leafs hold the 5th overall and they didn't even lose (yet) another game!

3 points away from the 3rd overall and 5 from the 2nd overall... c'mon it is duable!

 

[Fanatic]

Draft Position Team Games Played Points 9 Carolina 74 75 CBJ DET TOR WPG NJD OTT MON FLA 8 Anaheim 75 75 BOS SJS PHX EDM VAN EDM CAL 7 Tampa Bay 73 73 NYI PHI BOS NJD WPG WAS MON TOR WPG 6 Minnesota 73 72 BUF WAS NYR FLA LAK CHI NAS CHI PHX 5 Toronto 74 72 NJD NYR CAR PHI BUF BUF TBY MON 4 NY Islanders 73 71 TBY FLA PIT PIT BOS OTT NJD WPG CBJ 3 Montreal 74 69 OTT PHI FLA NYR WAS TBY CAR TOR 2 e - Edmonton 74 67 FLA CBJ DAL LAK ANA LAK ANA VAN 1 e - Columbus 73 53 Does Not Matter Who They Play

Sorry that I do not know how to post this nice and neatly. It looks good in Excel on my desktop.

 

[cw]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

 

[Redleaf]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

I made a comment a while back in another thread that suggested if the Leafs somehow get into that top 3 spot, Burke could offer it up along with say, Schenn, to Columbus in some sort of package for Nash. I'm sure Columbus would love to have 2 of the top 3 picks to help jump start their rebuild process. It would be something the Rangers couldn't really counter as well.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

I made a comment a while back in another thread that suggested if the Leafs somehow get into that top 3 spot, Burke could offer it up along with say, Schenn, to Columbus in some sort of package for Nash. I'm sure Columbus would love to have 2 of the top 3 picks to help jump start their rebuild process.

Oh boy, if he does that he will be responsible for trading away two Top 3 picks in his short 4 years. What a disaster GM.

 

[Redleaf]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

I made a comment a while back in another thread that suggested if the Leafs somehow get into that top 3 spot, Burke could offer it up along with say, Schenn, to Columbus in some sort of package for Nash. I'm sure Columbus would love to have 2 of the top 3 picks to help jump start their rebuild process.

Oh boy, if he does that he will be responsible for trading away two Top 3 picks in his short 4 years. What a disaster GM.

Although I'm not suggesting he do this, but it would be something I see Burke contemplating. He's on record numerous times saying he won't take the long road on this. We'll what happens I guess.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

I made a comment a while back in another thread that suggested if the Leafs somehow get into that top 3 spot, Burke could offer it up along with say, Schenn, to Columbus in some sort of package for Nash. I'm sure Columbus would love to have 2 of the top 3 picks to help jump start their rebuild process.

Oh boy, if he does that he will be responsible for trading away two Top 3 picks in his short 4 years. What a disaster GM.

Although I'm not suggesting he do this, but it would be something I see Burke contemplating. He's on record numerous times saying he won't take the long road on this. We'll what happens I guess.

I think that approach is dead and he knows it or at least I hope he does.

 

[Redleaf]

Why do I envision Burke trying to trade out of a high pick too?

1. Because if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, it may be curtains for his time in Toronto?
2. Because they're close to the fifty contract limit so he's got to try to dump something to change the roster and the slugs will be tough to dump going into the new CBA?
3. Because the current roster isn't good enough and Burkie is in a 're-tooling' hurry?

There's no way Burke will sit on his hands and the high pick will be very tempting to try to flip into something that will help him ... as Leafs history flirts with repeating itself with the trading of a high draft pick with a Leafs GM under pressure to deliver now.

About a year ago, they were saying good things about the top of the 2012 draft. That seems to have tailed off quite a bit. Scanning the top 30, I wasn't that impressed. There are some good players but I didn't see one that popped out as a surefire franchise player - they seemed to have some uncertainty about them achieving top end potential.

The next few months are going to be quite interesting to see what Burke does.

I made a comment a while back in another thread that suggested if the Leafs somehow get into that top 3 spot, Burke could offer it up along with say, Schenn, to Columbus in some sort of package for Nash. I'm sure Columbus would love to have 2 of the top 3 picks to help jump start their rebuild process.

Oh boy, if he does that he will be responsible for trading away two Top 3 picks in his short 4 years. What a disaster GM.

Although I'm not suggesting he do this, but it would be something I see Burke contemplating. He's on record numerous times saying he won't take the long road on this. We'll what happens I guess.

I think that approach is dead and he knows it or at least I hope he does.

I'm not so sure about that. Like cw said it promises to be a very interesting next few months or so.

 

[Peter D.]

If we stick at #5, would you trade the #5 pick, our second this year and 1st next year for the #1 overall selection?

As much as I'd love to see the Leafs draft Yakupov, I want the Leafs to hold on to their 1st in the Nathan MacKinnon draft.  If the season spirals out of control like it did this year, I don't want to see the team miss out on the potential of drafting him.

 

[Corn Flake]

Although I'm not suggesting he do this, but it would be something I see Burke contemplating. He's on record numerous times saying he won't take the long road on this. We'll what happens I guess.

I don't really see it this way.  I agree that in the past (2 years ago+) he has suggested the long road need not be taken and some of his early moves were much more immediate term, but the moves in the past few years have shown that this really isn't the case.  The acquisitions of Colborne, Franson, Gardiner.. additional picks like last year, etc., his more recent comments about how he doesn't want to make moves to put the team in the playoffs and get killed, and has been relatively consistent talking about long-term success and building with young players. 

So I'm not really getting where many think its some kind of foregone conclusion he is going to trade the pick.  I think he would have done it months ago if he was truly thinking shortcut to success.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Although I'm not suggesting he do this, but it would be something I see Burke contemplating. He's on record numerous times saying he won't take the long road on this. We'll what happens I guess.

I don't really see it this way.  I agree that in the past (2 years ago+) he has suggested the long road need not be taken and some of his early moves were much more immediate term, but the moves in the past few years have shown that this really isn't the case.  The acquisitions of Colborne, Franson, Gardiner.. additional picks like last year, etc., his more recent comments about how he doesn't want to make moves to put the team in the playoffs and get killed, and has been relatively consistent talking about long-term success and building with young players. 

So I'm not really getting where many think its some kind of foregone conclusion he is going to trade the pick.  I think he would have done it months ago if he was truly thinking shortcut to success.

That's my take on that as well.

 

[Erndog]

If we stick at #5, would you trade the #5 pick, our second this year and 1st next year for the #1 overall selection?

I think it depends on who the Leafs would want, is it Yakupov, Grigorenko or do they want Galchenyuk and hope he drops a couple of spots due to the injury?

I'd probably do the above deal, then try and move one of the bodies on the roster to get a 1st back for next years draft.

Very tough call, but I'd say no for 2 reasons.

We have our 1st, 2nd and 5th round picks.  If we trade our 2nd we literally draft 1st overall and nothing for 5 rounds.  Thats not a way to fill up the jet stream.

Second, I want to keep our 1st next year for potentially MacKinnon.  I don't know if Yakupov alone will vault us from being a bottom feeder to picking outside the top 10 next year.  It's quite possible we'll be bottom 5 again next year even with Yakupov (depending of course on what else we do in the summer, namely regarding our goaltending and another 2nd/3rd line player).

 

[Corn Flake]

If we stick at #5, would you trade the #5 pick, our second this year and 1st next year for the #1 overall selection?

I think it depends on who the Leafs would want, is it Yakupov, Grigorenko or do they want Galchenyuk and hope he drops a couple of spots due to the injury?

I'd probably do the above deal, then try and move one of the bodies on the roster to get a 1st back for next years draft.

Very tough call, but I'd say no for 2 reasons.

We have our 1st, 2nd and 5th round picks.  If we trade our 2nd we literally draft 1st overall and nothing for 5 rounds.  Thats not a way to fill up the jet stream.

Second, I want to keep our 1st next year for potentially MacKinnon.  I don't know if Yakupov alone will vault us from being a bottom feeder to picking outside the top 10 next year.  It's quite possible we'll be bottom 5 again next year even with Yakupov (depending of course on what else we do in the summer, namely regarding our goaltending and another 2nd/3rd line player).

While I agree with not trading next year's 1st, haven't you/we/everyone generally agreed that things look quite good in the prospect depth dept but the one missing element has been the true superstar in waiting?  Moving multiple picks or pieces to get one legit star in the making is a no brainier move in my books.  Hell, if it meant they only draft one player this year and it's 1st overall... fine by me.

 

[Kaberle15]

Burke stated as soon as he arrived in Toronto that he build his teams from the net out. He needs a good Goalie and solid D.

This year was just the opposite, while the fowards delivered and outscored they won.

Once the D colapsed and the goalies could not stop anything the free fall started.

Now the Leafs have an overpaid D corps, no proven #1 goalie and capable fowards. BB needs to rebuild the D or Carlyle must change the team D in other for this team to have any success.

 

[Tigger]

If we stick at #5, would you trade the #5 pick, our second this year and 1st next year for the #1 overall selection?

I think it depends on who the Leafs would want, is it Yakupov, Grigorenko or do they want Galchenyuk and hope he drops a couple of spots due to the injury?

I'd probably do the above deal, then try and move one of the bodies on the roster to get a 1st back for next years draft.

Very tough call, but I'd say no for 2 reasons.

We have our 1st, 2nd and 5th round picks.  If we trade our 2nd we literally draft 1st overall and nothing for 5 rounds.  Thats not a way to fill up the jet stream.

Second, I want to keep our 1st next year for potentially MacKinnon.  I don't know if Yakupov alone will vault us from being a bottom feeder to picking outside the top 10 next year.  It's quite possible we'll be bottom 5 again next year even with Yakupov (depending of course on what else we do in the summer, namely regarding our goaltending and another 2nd/3rd line player).

I don't think Yakupov is going to change any teams fortunes next year by a large measure, fwiw, he's a good player but has a lot to learn as well.

I mean, if he became a Leaf I'd root for him and all but he's got a few quirks that leave him wide open.

I agree with the MacKinnon notion, next years first should be sacred cow-ish, though I think Burke will sell a player or two in deals involving picks and players coming back in the offseason so I'd consider moving other picks in that case if it meant getting a shot at the top 2 this year.

 

[Erndog]

If we stick at #5, would you trade the #5 pick, our second this year and 1st next year for the #1 overall selection?

I think it depends on who the Leafs would want, is it Yakupov, Grigorenko or do they want Galchenyuk and hope he drops a couple of spots due to the injury?

I'd probably do the above deal, then try and move one of the bodies on the roster to get a 1st back for next years draft.

Very tough call, but I'd say no for 2 reasons.

We have our 1st, 2nd and 5th round picks.  If we trade our 2nd we literally draft 1st overall and nothing for 5 rounds.  Thats not a way to fill up the jet stream.

Second, I want to keep our 1st next year for potentially MacKinnon.  I don't know if Yakupov alone will vault us from being a bottom feeder to picking outside the top 10 next year.  It's quite possible we'll be bottom 5 again next year even with Yakupov (depending of course on what else we do in the summer, namely regarding our goaltending and another 2nd/3rd line player).

While I agree with not trading next year's 1st, haven't you/we/everyone generally agreed that things look quite good in the prospect depth dept but the one missing element has been the true superstar in waiting?  Moving multiple picks or pieces to get one legit star in the making is a no brainier move in my books.  Hell, if it meant they only draft one player this year and it's 1st overall... fine by me.

Sorta.  I'm not nearly as high as some on Kadri, Ashton, Colborne, etc.  In fact, I don't think Colborne will ever amount to a regular NHL player, Kadri's ceiling looks like a tweener 2nd/3rd liner, Ashton is as meh as they come, every organization has guys like him, Holzer is one of those guys who may fill out a 5/6/7 roster spot on D so it's nothing to get excited amount, Mckegg is a Stajan at best, we definitely don't have a starting goalie in the system, and on and on.

I'm most excited about Brad Ross and Jesse Blacker I guess.  I think they will become pretty good, useful NHL players in the Steve Ott, and Michael Del Zotto-light mold respectively. 

In 3 years I honestly don't see many of our prospects on the team full time.  I think that is one area (along with goaltending) where Burke seriously, seriously, miscalculated.


Edit:  I don't know enough about Biggs or even Percy but I think Biggs may go the way of Wade Belak in the sense that he mostly becomes a tough guy, 4th liner.  Percy from what I hear can become a real sturdy d-man, who has some offense to his game.  Similar to a John Carlson in Washington.

 

[Corn Flake]

Sorta.  I'm not nearly as high as some on Kadri, Ashton, Colborne, etc.  In fact, I don't think Colborne will ever amount to a regular NHL player, Kadri's ceiling looks like a tweener 2nd/3rd liner, Ashton is as meh as they come, every organization has guys like him, Holzer is one of those guys who may fill out a 5/6/7 roster spot on D so it's nothing to get excited amount, Mckegg is a Stajan at best, we definitely don't have a starting goalie in the system, and on and on.

I'm most excited about Brad Ross and Jesse Blacker I guess.  I think they will become pretty good, useful NHL players in the Steve Ott, and Michael Del Zotto-light mold respectively. 

In 3 years I honestly don't see many of our prospects on the team full time.  I think that is one area (along with goaltending) where Burke seriously, seriously, miscalculated.


Edit:  I don't know enough about Biggs or even Percy but I think Biggs may go the way of Wade Belak in the sense that he mostly becomes a tough guy, 4th liner.  Percy from what I hear can become a real sturdy d-man, who has some offense to his game.  Similar to a John Carlson in Washington.

It won't come as a surprise that I think you are being excessively pessimistic about the prospects, but at this point I can't really say a lot to change your mind other than I think we need to be patient and given how well the Marlies are playing there is lots of promise.  Its just taking time.  3 years in the AHL is not the end of the world.  We just have a hard time accepting it (and maybe because it's a new concept to us to let players develop in the system).  There are 3 goaltending prospects in the system all playing quite well.  Why so glum, chum?

There is far far more there than we have ever had before. More quality, more higher end talent and more development channels in place that haven't been there pre-Burke.  They don't all pan out for sure but I'll go by the scouting reports, the ratings of the Leafs being quite high by many who watch and grade prospects and my own eyes seeing what these guys could be. 

Paaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiitence.