Olympic Winter Games Officially Open

[OldTimeHockey]

Ha, did you just compare him to Tonya Harding?

Despite the IOC not having a way to determine a clear cut winner, all the major media sites certainly do like to lay out the 'Medal Leaders' in big capital letters on each of their web pages. I'd figure they do this because more than just Redleaf like to know who's 'winning'.

I mean, a pretty big deal was made after Vancouver that Canada won the most gold medals.

 

[Kin]

Despite the IOC not having a way to determine a clear cut winner, all the major media sites certainly do like to lay out the 'Medal Leaders' in big capital letters on each of their web pages. I'd figure they do this because more than just Redleaf like to know who's 'winning'.

Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that major media outlets try to condense a complex and foreign concept into the easiest possible narrative that conforms to the simplest possible understanding of a subject matter?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Despite the IOC not having a way to determine a clear cut winner, all the major media sites certainly do like to lay out the 'Medal Leaders' in big capital letters on each of their web pages. I'd figure they do this because more than just Redleaf like to know who's 'winning'.

Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that major media outlets try to condense a complex and foreign concept into the easiest possible narrative that conforms to the simplest possible understanding of a subject matter?

There's a jab in there, I know it!

 

[Redleaf]

I guess you've never visited the US during the Olympics? Right or wrong, that country certainly knows how to keep track of who wins Olympic events and tournaments. (Particularly when it's them)

Again, if the concept of a lack of an overall Olympic champion were one that were so incompatible with a sporting contest where individual results are counted and mattered, why wouldn't the IOC actually spell out a process for determining a champion? The NHL doesn't leave the Stanley Cup champion for franchises to decide. The NBA doesn't leave it unclear as to whether or not their champion is determined by the playoffs or the regular season. Sporting bodies that award championships, by and large, tend to actually let the participants know about them.

I mean, I appreciate that you're the sort of person who wants to take their cues from the American ethos of winning trumping all other matters of sport(see Harding, Tonya) but that just doesn't seem to carry the day in the eyes of the people who actually put on the Olympics.

Not to worry though. I'm sure you'll find another avenue by which to call the country you live in better than others.

Just in case you felt like humming along....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ&feature=youtube_gdata

 

[Kin]

Just in case you felt like humming along....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ&feature=youtube_gdata

Back at you...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik[/youtube]

 

[L K]

I think what Nik is saying is pretty accurate.  If the Olympics wanted to declare an overall winner, they would just create a point system for Olympic medals:

3 points for gold, 2 points for silver, 1 point for bronze or something, and then award medals to the country with the "Gold, Silver, Bronze" of total medal winners.

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

 

[Corn Flake]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

I say we when a Canadian wins.  I'm pretty sure people know I didn't actually win it, so there's not much confusion there.

EDIT:  Forgot the quote.

And to add - when you say "we" regarding the Leafs, are you on the Leafs team?  If so, disclosure man!

 

[louisstamos]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

Yes, but I funded them by buying a mug at Petro-Canada.

(insert smug smile here)

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

 

[Redleaf]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

I say we when a Canadian wins.  I'm pretty sure people know I didn't actually win it, so there's not much confusion there.

EDIT:  Forgot the quote.

And to add - when you say "we" regarding the Leafs, are you on the Leafs team?  If so, disclosure man!

Yeah. Enough about what medal counts should mean or not mean, but saying "we" when Canada wins a medal is just national pride. Are we outlawing that now?

 

[Kin]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

I say we when a Canadian wins.  I'm pretty sure people know I didn't actually win it, so there's not much confusion there.

I don't think the issue is that CF thinks that by using "we" you're confusing people or attempting to, it's that you're injecting yourself into the accomplishments of other people and/or bringing nationalism into a realm it doesn't really belong.

 

[L K]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

I say we when a Canadian wins.  I'm pretty sure people know I didn't actually win it, so there's not much confusion there.

I don't think the issue is that CF thinks that by using "we" you're confusing people or attempting to, it's that you're injecting yourself into the accomplishments of other people and/or bringing nationalism into a realm it doesn't really belong.

For me the biggest thing to this is that with the Leafs we know that most people on the site are invested in the team at all times.  We watch the games, agonize over wins/losses/shot differentials.  In the offseason we are probably about as engaged in the team as anyone in the front office in terms of debating the merits of 4th liners and prospective trades/contracts.

How many people were following and rooting for Alexandre Bilodeau on February 12th 2013?  It's great that he won a Gold Medal.  It's great that he represented Canada at the Olympics, but that is Alexandre's accomplishment, not really Canada's accomplishment.  I cheer for him over others because of his nationality, but I don't have as much right to claim "we" in this situation because I don't cheer for him all of the time.  I don't think it's fair to him.

And I know that the pronoun choice is not implying actual ownership of his accomplishment, but in general I think a distinction needs to be made with how we treat/cheer for Canadian athletes in "amateur" sports.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah. Enough about what medal counts should mean or not mean, but saying "we" when Canada wins a medal is just national pride. Are we outlawing that now?

I just say "we" as in Canada - we're Canadian, the medal counts as one for Canada, so 'we' won a gold medal.  Simple really.  Effective too.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

For me the biggest thing to this is that with the Leafs we know that most people on the site are invested in the team at all times.  We watch the games, agonize over wins/losses/shot differentials.  In the offseason we are probably about as engaged in the team as anyone in the front office in terms of debating the merits of 4th liners and prospective trades/contracts.

How many people were following and rooting for Alexandre Bilodeau on February 12th 2013?  It's great that he won a Gold Medal.  It's great that he represented Canada at the Olympics, but that is Alexandre's accomplishment, not really Canada's accomplishment.  I cheer for him over others because of his nationality, but I don't have as much right to claim "we" in this situation because I don't cheer for him all of the time.  I don't think it's fair to him.

And I know that the pronoun choice is not implying actual ownership of his accomplishment, but in general I think a distinction needs to be made with how we treat/cheer for Canadian athletes in "amateur" sports.

The medal is listed as a medal for Canada, so I say 'we' as in Canada won the medal - our country.  Same as with the Leafs, I don't say 'we' because of how much time I invest in them, I just say it because that's the team I root for and I consider the team/fans one big Leafs entity.

 

[Redleaf]

The Olympics is about individual (or team sport) competitions, not really national competition.

Agreed. I think the medal count race was derived by media and "fans" have latched on to it as having as much or more meaning than the individuals or teams who win the medals themselves. We collectively seem more excited about medal totals than anything else.

It always kind of bothers me when someone says "we just won a gold medal!"  No, no you didn't. An athlete from your country won a medal. You sat on the couch and watched (at best). Yay for them and their fellow countrymen are proud and excited.

I say we when a Canadian wins.  I'm pretty sure people know I didn't actually win it, so there's not much confusion there.

I don't think the issue is that CF thinks that by using "we" you're confusing people or attempting to, it's that you're injecting yourself into the accomplishments of other people and/or bringing nationalism into a realm it doesn't really belong.

Are you saying the Olympics is not the place to display national pride Nik?

 

[Kin]

For me the biggest thing to this is that with the Leafs we know that most people on the site are invested in the team at all times.  We watch the games, agonize over wins/losses/shot differentials.  In the offseason we are probably about as engaged in the team as anyone in the front office in terms of debating the merits of 4th liners and prospective trades/contracts.

Well, also, I think a sports team, and especially in the Leafs case, is as much a civic institution as it is a privately owned business. Other people are cashing the checks but the reality is that the Maple Leafs being what they are, having the value they do...that comes from fans. That comes from the people of Toronto and fans of the Leafs from elsewhere supporting them more than other cities and fanbases, some of who have had a lot more reason to support their team than the Leafs. I still don't use "we" when I refer to the Leafs but there is at least a sort of collective interest and influence there. I mean, all the big buildings downtown are owned by other people but it's still "our" skyline.

Like you say, I have no collected interest in ski jumping. I don't know what Bilodeau being good at it means, really. I mean I don't think there's anything in our national character that makes us conducive to it. If his parents had decided to start their family in Vermont instead of Quebec I don't think he'd be any worse at his sport. If it's a "Canadian accomplishment" simply by virtue of the guy who did it being born here that's not something I need to claim a part of.   

And I know that the pronoun choice is not implying actual ownership of his accomplishment, but in general I think a distinction needs to be made with how we treat/cheer for Canadian athletes in "amateur" sports.

And to clarify I don't really care if someone uses "we" in this case or regarding the Leafs. But to the extent that I do enjoy the Olympics it's really not based on a national interest unless it's a sport I follow closely at times other than every four years.

 

[hockeyfan1]

When Canada wins medals "we" say Canada wins etc., etc.

When referring to who won what in a quick conversation, many say "we" won another gold, etc.,

An athlete wins a medal attributed to their overall performance representing his/her respective nation. 
An athlete wins a medal attributable to their having been trained and in part supported by their country's organization, etc.,

Both ways, an athlete wins the medal for both themselves and their country, therefore the "we" part still stands country-wise in representation & results.

 

[Kin]

Are you saying the Olympics is not the place to display national pride Nik?

I'm saying I certainly don't invest too heavily in the Olympics from a Nationalistic standpoint. If someone from the Netherlands or South Korea or wherever does something amazing I'll be more or less just as jazzed as if they were from Red Deer or Fredricton.

I very much like the idea of the Olympics as a place where you forget about National differences or rivalries and just concentrate on the pursuit of achievements within individual or team disciplines. Sure, athletes are organized by and represent their countries but as often as not athletes are competing against their countrymen as well. It's about them and their excellence, not us and ours.

But that's me. If you want to take a great sense of national pride at how good a couple of Quebecois sisters are at skiing the moguls...have at 'er.

 

[Redleaf]

Are you saying the Olympics is not the place to display national pride Nik?

I'm saying I certainly don't invest too heavily in the Olympics from a Nationalistic standpoint. If someone from the Netherlands or South Korea or wherever does something amazing I'll be more or less just as jazzed as if they were from Red Deer or Fredricton.

I very much like the idea of the Olympics as a place where you forget about National differences or rivalries and just concentrate on the pursuit of achievements within individual or team disciplines. Sure, athletes are organized by and represent their countries but as often as not athletes are competing against their countrymen as well. It's about them and their excellence, not us and ours.

But that's me. If you want to take a great sense of national pride at how good a couple of Quebecois sisters are at skiing the moguls...have at 'er.

So, just so I'm clear about this. You'd be just as happy to see Finland, Sweden, USA or Russia win hockey gold as you would Canada?