Other draft day targets

[bustaheims]

Yeah, with Kadri re-signing they're running out high value assets to turn into high picks.

I'm all for the idea of turning JVR into a quality young defenseman, but I'd prefer that guy to be 20-21 years old given the longer learning curve for most young defensemen. 

If that can't happen, then I'm not opposed to JVR being moved for a top 10 pick in June to grab a defenseman.

That sort of depends on the ceiling. The guys with real high-end potential (who are the guys the Leafs really need to be targetting - there are enough potential mid-tier guys in the system, and others are easy enough to acquire) are already pretty good by their early 20s - which would line up nicely with the Leafs' timeline.

 

[Bullfrog]

I wonder if we can put together a package to move up in the draft to get Jakob Chychrun. That would be my draft day wish. (other than Mathews of course)

It's probably possible(provided Chychrun ends up going 7-10 instead of 4-6) but I'd imagine any such discussion would begin and end with JVR going the other way.

He's such a strange prospect in the sense that his rankings seem to vary considerably. I was just reading an article how he was considered a possible top 3 prospect at one time, but now some rankings have him outside the top 10.

 

[herman]

Should we ever bother drafting a goalie when serviceable ones are so cheap on the market (except the handful that are not)? It's such a nebulous position, I don't know if I would ever bother to devote development time from the ground up, rather than take free flyers on NCAA/undrafted/Euro league goalies.

 

[Kin]

Should we ever bother drafting a goalie when serviceable ones are so cheap on the market (except the handful that are not)? It's such a nebulous position, I don't know if I would ever bother to devote development time from the ground up, rather than take free flyers on NCAA/undrafted/Euro league goalies.

I think so. The best guys still tend to be drafted.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'd be supportive of taking a goalie with the 31st pick. I was really hoping for them to pick up Samsonov in the draft last year, but he didn't drop far enough.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Should we ever bother drafting a goalie when serviceable ones are so cheap on the market (except the handful that are not)? It's such a nebulous position, I don't know if I would ever bother to devote development time from the ground up, rather than take free flyers on NCAA/undrafted/Euro league goalies.

I think so. The best guys still tend to be drafted.

Yeah "serviceable" would cut it for the next 2-3 years but after that we should be looking for an above-average one. And there's very few goalies that were undrafted/signed out of the NCAA/Europe that I would call above-average.

 

[bustaheims]

Should we ever bother drafting a goalie when serviceable ones are so cheap on the market (except the handful that are not)? It's such a nebulous position, I don't know if I would ever bother to devote development time from the ground up, rather than take free flyers on NCAA/undrafted/Euro league goalies.

If you're looking to build a championship calibre team, yes. The last team to win the Cup with undrafted goalie was Dallas in 1999 - and the guy they had happened to already be an established star goalie when they picked him up. To find another team that won the Cup without a drafted goalie, you have to go back to the early 70s, when teams had guys who were in the league before the draft was put in place.

Basically, what it boils down to is the guys who are going to develop into the type of goalie that can be part of a team's long-term success are drafted - not necessarily by the team they end up having their success with, but they're still drafted. The free agent types . . . there's been a few really good ones over the year, but they're few and far between, and relying on finding one as part of your championship building strategy almost certainly dooms you to failure. Serviceable is fine for when the team is still in the rebuilding/growth phase, but you need to try to put yourself in a position where the long-term solution is in the organization and ready to step up when your core skaters are reaching their peaks.

 

[Kin]

To be fair to Herm I think he was trying to get at the fairly soft market for goaltending creating a situation where pretty good goalies get moved with some frequency. 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs didn't draft their starter.

Edit: Or, I guess, two and a half of the four teams left didn't draft their starter because of the St. Louis tandem.

 

[bustaheims]

To be fair to Herm I think he was trying to get at the fairly soft market for goaltending creating a situation where pretty good goalies get moved with some frequency. 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs didn't draft their starter.

Edit: Or, I guess, two and a half of the four teams left didn't draft their starter because of the St. Louis tandem.

Still need something more than serviceable, though. The guys the Leafs need to be targeting are the handful that he notes are not cheap.

 

[herman]

To be fair to Herm I think he was trying to get at the fairly soft market for goaltending creating a situation where pretty good goalies get moved with some frequency. 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs didn't draft their starter.

Edit: Or, I guess, two and a half of the four teams left didn't draft their starter because of the St. Louis tandem.

Still need something more than serviceable, though. The guys the Leafs need to be targeting are the handful that he notes are not cheap.

Nik picked up on what I didn't say very well at all. Acquiring a premiere goalie on the market might be easier than drafting one. For example, we appear to be very good at drafting high production forwards (which the market favours with heavy contracts). What if one of those turns into an established #1 goalie from a rebuilding team, or a team that gets cap crunched?

The science of drafting is difficult enough, but drafting goalies seems like even more of a crapshoot than forwards or defense, and stopgaps are readily available on the cheap.

 

[Kin]

To be fair to Herm I think he was trying to get at the fairly soft market for goaltending creating a situation where pretty good goalies get moved with some frequency. 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs didn't draft their starter.

Edit: Or, I guess, two and a half of the four teams left didn't draft their starter because of the St. Louis tandem.

Still need something more than serviceable, though. The guys the Leafs need to be targeting are the handful that he notes are not cheap.

I wouldn't describe those guys as only serviceable though. And while Jones was certainly expensive, you can't say the same for Bishop and Elliot.

That said, I agree they should be drafting goalies I just think there's a broader parameter for adding good ones than there is at other positions.

 

[azzurri63]

I wonder if we can put together a package to move up in the draft to get Jakob Chychrun. That would be my draft day wish. (other than Mathews of course)

It's probably possible(provided Chychrun ends up going 7-10 instead of 4-6) but I'd imagine any such discussion would begin and end with JVR going the other way.

His stock has dropped a lot and I would love to see them trade up to possibly grab him. I personally think he's going to go around 8-9 so going to have to give something up. We can walk away with Matthews and Chychrun from this draft I'd be ecstatic.

 

[McGarnagle]

With JVR being named to the world cup roster, I imagine his stock could have been given a bit of a boost in terms of trade value. I hope they can get another top pick.

 

[slapshot]

I think the Leafs are going to make a big play during the draft to shore up their goaltending picture on a couple of fronts.

First, by actually picking a netminder or two. I have a hunch they might go after Tyler Parsons, given the London connection, his solid if not spectacular play during the Memorial Cup (you gotta love his compete level, especially during a couple of those mad scrambles in the final game). He's not the highest rate goalie, but if the Hunters think he has the right stuff, the Leafs could very well grab him.

Secondly, I think the Leafs make a play for a veteran netminder, someone who will compete with, and somewhat mentor, Bernier. Bernier is a UFA after next year, and if he decided to walk, it really leaves the Leafs exposed in net. And, I think Shanahan and co. are too savvy to let that happen. They'd be better to make a deal now, rather than wait until a gun is to their head and they have to pay more. There are really no top flight goalies of the right age that aren't locked up for years (meaning it's next to impossible to get an A-list goalie via free agency). Possible candidates that might be available via trade could include:
1. Marc Andre Fleury, 31, now that it appears Matt Murray is number one. He's $5.1 million on the cap, and is still under contract for a few more years. Would the Leafs flip the Pens 1st rounder back to them for Fleury (would you?). Pens needs cap space.
2. Jimmy Howard, 32, same kind of cap hit and years left, similar to Fleury. Is certainly known by Babcock, which could be a factor one way or the other.
3. Brian Elliott, 31, half the cap hit, but like Bernier a pending free agent. Do the Blues cut him loose and just go with Allen?
4. Jaroslav Halak, 31, does the emergence of Greiss make him expendable? Somewhere in between Elliott and the first two in terms of cap hit and years signed for.
5. Cam Ward, 32, UFA.

Do any of the above make sense and who would you target, if any? I think Frederick Andersson gets resigned by Anaheim and the Leafs don't go down the Reimer road again.

 

[Kin]

I think it's pretty likely that the Leafs go after a middle-tier UFA to split time with Bernier. I don't think they're going to look to solve their goaltending issues in a long-term sense this off-season and being that the team is still building there won't be a gun to their head next year with Bernier as a pending UFA. They should still be looking to develop their own goalie and look for stop-gap solutions until that goalie is ready. So, no, I wouldn't trade valuable assets for someone like Fleury but Ward might be worth a look.

 

[bustaheims]

None of those goalies really have any interest for me. The only situation where the Leafs trade for a veteran goalie is one where they get another asset in return for taking on their contract.

 

[Frank E]

None of those goalies really have any interest for me. The only situation where the Leafs trade for a veteran goalie is one where they get another asset in return for taking on their contract.

Do you think they go into camp with a Bernier and a Sparks backup, or Bibeau rather than Sparks?

I have a hard time believing they don't make some kind of temporary move this summer.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Do you think they go into camp with a Bernier and a Sparks backup, or Bibeau rather than Sparks?

Please god no

 

[bustaheims]

Do you think they go into camp with a Bernier and a Sparks backup, or Bibeau rather than Sparks?

I have a hard time believing they don't make some kind of temporary move this summer.

It won't surprise me if they bring in a goalie. I just don't see them moving quality assets for one who is already on the wrong side of 30. If there's a trade, it will either be a situation where they get an asset for taking a contract, pick up a veteran on the cheap, or add a young goalie that can be part of the future. Otherwise, if they add a goalie, it'll be in the free agent market.

 

[Bullfrog]

Reimer, Scrivens, and Gustavsson are all available. 

Honestly, why not bring Reimer back? He'd probably be the best bang-for-the-buck. It probably doesn't matter a tonne, but Ward would cost quite a bit more, no?