R1, G2: Bruins vs. Maple Leafs - Apr. 22nd, 7:00pm - SN, 680 News

[ZBBM]

Keefe disagrees with you.  Postgame comments, he thought Marner played a good game.

He's not getting traded, herman.  He's not.  Get used to it.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Keefe disagrees with you.  Postgame comments, he thought Marner played a good game.

He's not getting traded, herman.  He's not.  Get used to it.

I thought he was good. He still needs to be better. It would go a long way if L2 could start popping them.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I fell asleep during the pre-game after having been awake for over 24 hours with a sick kid.

You're welcome.

I'll be drinking Nyquill about an hour before puck drop on Wednesday.

 

[bustaheims]

So:

We don't suck?
Neither does Sammy?

Talk about a one-eighty mood swing on here.

Yeah. It?s the playoffs!

 

[herman]

Keefe disagrees with you.  Postgame comments, he thought Marner played a good game.

He's not getting traded, herman.  He's not.  Get used to it.

Keefe knows that saying anything bad about Marner just leads to worse Marner.

 

[bustaheims]

https://x.com/TicTacTOmar/status/1782585383164715190

Marchand grabs the wrong leg in his embellishment

 

[Frank E]

So:

We don't suck?
Neither does Sammy?

Talk about a one-eighty mood swing on here.

Yeah. It?s the playoffs!

There's always 2 full days to dissect every errant pass on the PK when the face-off is on the left side in the 2nd period while the game is tied and a clearing attempt would have been preferrable.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

My takeaways from last night, when Matthews scores and Sammy makes key stops we win, period. And Boston looked very beatable last night, if we stay out of the box and keep playing like this, we can win this. GO LEAFS!!!

 

[Redleaf]

Minor trouble spots:
- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack
- Marner hasn?t really activated, granted he?s doing the shutdown duties sans Matthews and that is harder
- Samsonov, by nature of his playstyle, is inconsistent, so we have to work hard to make sure he gets clean looks and is positioned to be lucky
- too many stick infractions against a team that a) knows how to dive b) knows how to pass to Pastrnak
- breakouts getting targeted routinely

Bright spots:
- playing slightly better than Boston 5v5 short two of our better forwards
- Matthews still cooks with Bert and Domi
- Holmberg and Kampf pulling their weight

Marner is getting roasted and I think it's a lil unfair. I think Knies is hurting that line for sure and Marner's assignment as shutdown is def tough playing with JT and Knies.

We need Willy to get back asap because our 3rd line would be a lot more threatening with him there. L2 misses McMann big time.

Marner still sucks at playoff hockey. Everyone is going North-South aggressively and he is still trying to pick his way around the ice laterally like it?s December looking for a tap-in pass while skating at 50% speed. Knies is certainly a factor, but he?s the rookie filling in, while the 8-yr 11M guy is not really driving the line at all. All he needs to do is help carry the puck through the NZ and pump it on net/chip it deep so Tavares and Knies can bang it around. A blue line slip pass into coverage continues to suck the energy out of their legs.

Leafs are fortunate Matthews continues to be amazing without Marner.

Your infatuation with Nylander is clouding your judgment. Marner is a better all-around player? sorry to burst your bubble, but it?s the truth.

 

[Andy007]

Minor trouble spots:
- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack
- Marner hasn?t really activated, granted he?s doing the shutdown duties sans Matthews and that is harder
- Samsonov, by nature of his playstyle, is inconsistent, so we have to work hard to make sure he gets clean looks and is positioned to be lucky
- too many stick infractions against a team that a) knows how to dive b) knows how to pass to Pastrnak
- breakouts getting targeted routinely

Bright spots:
- playing slightly better than Boston 5v5 short two of our better forwards
- Matthews still cooks with Bert and Domi
- Holmberg and Kampf pulling their weight

Marner is getting roasted and I think it's a lil unfair. I think Knies is hurting that line for sure and Marner's assignment as shutdown is def tough playing with JT and Knies.

We need Willy to get back asap because our 3rd line would be a lot more threatening with him there. L2 misses McMann big time.

Marner still sucks at playoff hockey. Everyone is going North-South aggressively and he is still trying to pick his way around the ice laterally like it?s December looking for a tap-in pass while skating at 50% speed. Knies is certainly a factor, but he?s the rookie filling in, while the 8-yr 11M guy is not really driving the line at all. All he needs to do is help carry the puck through the NZ and pump it on net/chip it deep so Tavares and Knies can bang it around. A blue line slip pass into coverage continues to suck the energy out of their legs.

Leafs are fortunate Matthews continues to be amazing without Marner.

Your infatuation with Nylander is clouding your judgment. Marner is a better all-around player? sorry to burst your bubble, but it?s the truth.

And yet nothing in the post you quoted is incorrect..

 

[Andy007]

Why all the scrums in every other game are not penalties?

It just seems that certain teams (Boston and Tampa are experts at this) know what they can get away with and what they can do to either encourage a call or goad teams into infractions.

The play that Lybushkin went nuts over was not just Coyle' first slash on Samsonov after the puck was covered and whistle blown, but Coyle's slash AFTER that, which hit Samsonov square in the face. Both subtle shots that were (surprise) missed by the refs. But the punches in the face weren't, and won't, be missed.

Just like Marchand knows they won't call a diving penalty, so he goes down like a bazooka hit his leg (the wrong leg, as Busta posted, lol) after Bertuzzi makes a blatant slash well after the whistle. These teams know how to take advantage of the silly NHL system. Leafs just have to not be stupid.

 

[Redleaf]

Minor trouble spots:
- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack
- Marner hasn?t really activated, granted he?s doing the shutdown duties sans Matthews and that is harder
- Samsonov, by nature of his playstyle, is inconsistent, so we have to work hard to make sure he gets clean looks and is positioned to be lucky
- too many stick infractions against a team that a) knows how to dive b) knows how to pass to Pastrnak
- breakouts getting targeted routinely

Bright spots:
- playing slightly better than Boston 5v5 short two of our better forwards
- Matthews still cooks with Bert and Domi
- Holmberg and Kampf pulling their weight

Marner is getting roasted and I think it's a lil unfair. I think Knies is hurting that line for sure and Marner's assignment as shutdown is def tough playing with JT and Knies.

We need Willy to get back asap because our 3rd line would be a lot more threatening with him there. L2 misses McMann big time.

Marner still sucks at playoff hockey. Everyone is going North-South aggressively and he is still trying to pick his way around the ice laterally like it?s December looking for a tap-in pass while skating at 50% speed. Knies is certainly a factor, but he?s the rookie filling in, while the 8-yr 11M guy is not really driving the line at all. All he needs to do is help carry the puck through the NZ and pump it on net/chip it deep so Tavares and Knies can bang it around. A blue line slip pass into coverage continues to suck the energy out of their legs.

Leafs are fortunate Matthews continues to be amazing without Marner.

Your infatuation with Nylander is clouding your judgment. Marner is a better all-around player? sorry to burst your bubble, but it?s the truth.

And yet nothing in the post you quoted is incorrect..

Minor trouble spots:
- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack
- Marner hasn?t really activated, granted he?s doing the shutdown duties sans Matthews and that is harder
- Samsonov, by nature of his playstyle, is inconsistent, so we have to work hard to make sure he gets clean looks and is positioned to be lucky
- too many stick infractions against a team that a) knows how to dive b) knows how to pass to Pastrnak
- breakouts getting targeted routinely

Bright spots:
- playing slightly better than Boston 5v5 short two of our better forwards
- Matthews still cooks with Bert and Domi
- Holmberg and Kampf pulling their weight

Marner is getting roasted and I think it's a lil unfair. I think Knies is hurting that line for sure and Marner's assignment as shutdown is def tough playing with JT and Knies.

We need Willy to get back asap because our 3rd line would be a lot more threatening with him there. L2 misses McMann big time.

Marner still sucks at playoff hockey. Everyone is going North-South aggressively and he is still trying to pick his way around the ice laterally like it?s December looking for a tap-in pass while skating at 50% speed. Knies is certainly a factor, but he?s the rookie filling in, while the 8-yr 11M guy is not really driving the line at all. All he needs to do is help carry the puck through the NZ and pump it on net/chip it deep so Tavares and Knies can bang it around. A blue line slip pass into coverage continues to suck the energy out of their legs.

Leafs are fortunate Matthews continues to be amazing without Marner.

Your infatuation with Nylander is clouding your judgment. Marner is a better all-around player? sorry to burst your bubble, but it?s the truth.

And yet nothing in the post you quoted is incorrect..

47 pts in 52 playoff games doesn?t exactly scream ?not good at playoff hockey?

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/player/mitch-marner-8478483

 

[herman]

Marner is objectively a better player overall than Nylander; however, the goal of the game is to have the best team in a hard cap environment for playoff hockey. I like having lots of good players, and in a vacuum, I've got lots of time for a Matthews-Marner-Nylander triumvirate.

The bottom line is the Leafs are in the Atlantic and for the foreseeable future will have to go through teams that
a) forecheck hard
b) defend hard
c) score bunches
d) have magical goalies at the moment

What Marner is good/great at:
- playing defensively responsible
- pulling off crazy seam passes
- logging a stupid number of minutes while playing at a well-above average level
- being extremely extra about holding the blueline to stay on side
- leveraging the Toronto media in contract negotiations

I'll re-iterate this isn't a Marner vs Nylander situation; it's a what style of hockey should the Leafs make their identity for sustained success in the playoffs. I think you're seeing it on line 1, 3, 4 right now: fassthole hockey.
[*]Speed: good skating, good routes, quick movement of the puck through the zones to keep defenses switching and thinking and reacting, rather than countering
[*]Tenacity: using positioning and assertiveness to disrupt plays, free up pucks, and win mini-1v1/2s all over the ice
[*]Sowing Chaos: in a game of inches with a weirdly shape thing to put in the net, skill has the most leverage over the odds when there is a lot of chaos. Shoot the puck on net; generate rebounds, make defensemen turn around and goalies move side to side. The super skilled players frequently turn nothing plays into goals because they are just a bit faster at processing what's happening, just a bit steadier at executing the stickwork required to corral the puck, and have the capacity to be deceptive and calculating in their shots.

I think Marner is capable of playing fassthole hockey and I know he's coming back from a tough injury, but it's been several seasons of him demonstrating a severe allergy to playing direct hockey when there's limited time and space. Historically, the playoff Leafs have played to the level of whatever Marner was giving. Away from Matthews, I could easily sub in Calle Jarnkrok for everything Marner has offered at 5v5/PK this whole season without batting an eye (and Keefe did just that in the 3rd!). Matthews has shown repeatedly he has never really needed Marner to succeed. Coupled with the prospect of a contentious and reputationally disastrous negotiation, I'd rather save my cap space for a centre and another top-4 D in his prime. And I haven't even said anything about how Marner's tendencies on the PP neuter the Leafs every playoffs once the other team watches like 2 videos.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack

Knies lining up against Pasta just isn't going to go well. Jarnkrok in that spot makes way more sense, but I'm guessing Keefe doesn't want the all kid line on L3. Maybe something changes there once Willy plays. Getting out of the first two road games with Pasta only have one 5-on-5 point is a pretty good outcome though even if it looked ugly.

 

[herman]

- Knies dragging his line down defensively, but still doing some decent spade work on the attack

Knies lining up against Pasta just isn't going to go well. Jarnkrok in that spot makes way more sense, but I'm guessing Keefe doesn't want the all kid line on L3. Maybe something changes there once Willy plays. Getting out of the first two road games with Pasta only have one 5-on-5 point is a pretty good outcome though even if it looked ugly.

Missing Bobby McMann, our best defensive LW, fiercely.

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Jarnkrok
Knies-Holmberg-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-Marner (if he plays PK style)

would make Montgomery lose whatever hair he has left on his body. And Keefe could stack up lines with Marner/Nylander whenever it made sense. Jarnkrok and Marner could easily flip whenever.

 

[Bender]

Marner is objectively a better player overall than Nylander; however, the goal of the game is to have the best team in a hard cap environment for playoff hockey. I like having lots of good players, and in a vacuum, I've got lots of time for a Matthews-Marner-Nylander triumvirate.

The bottom line is the Leafs are in the Atlantic and for the foreseeable future will have to go through teams that
a) forecheck hard
b) defend hard
c) score bunches
d) have magical goalies at the moment

What Marner is good/great at:
- playing defensively responsible
- pulling off crazy seam passes
- logging a stupid number of minutes while playing at a well-above average level
- being extremely extra about holding the blueline to stay on side
- leveraging the Toronto media in contract negotiations

I'll re-iterate this isn't a Marner vs Nylander situation; it's a what style of hockey should the Leafs make their identity for sustained success in the playoffs. I think you're seeing it on line 1, 3, 4 right now: fassthole hockey.
[*]Speed: good skating, good routes, quick movement of the puck through the zones to keep defenses switching and thinking and reacting, rather than countering
[*]Tenacity: using positioning and assertiveness to disrupt plays, free up pucks, and win mini-1v1/2s all over the ice
[*]Sowing Chaos: in a game of inches with a weirdly shape thing to put in the net, skill has the most leverage over the odds when there is a lot of chaos. Shoot the puck on net; generate rebounds, make defensemen turn around and goalies move side to side. The super skilled players frequently turn nothing plays into goals because they are just a bit faster at processing what's happening, just a bit steadier at executing the stickwork required to corral the puck, and have the capacity to be deceptive and calculating in their shots.

I think Marner is capable of playing fassthole hockey and I know he's coming back from a tough injury, but it's been several seasons of him demonstrating a severe allergy to playing direct hockey when there's limited time and space. Historically, the playoff Leafs have played to the level of whatever Marner was giving. Away from Matthews, I could easily sub in Calle Jarnkrok for everything Marner has offered at 5v5/PK this whole season without batting an eye (and Keefe did just that in the 3rd!). Matthews has shown repeatedly he has never really needed Marner to succeed. Coupled with the prospect of a contentious and reputationally disastrous negotiation, I'd rather save my cap space for a centre and another top-4 D in his prime. And I haven't even said anything about how Marner's tendencies on the PP neuter the Leafs every playoffs once the other team watches like 2 videos.

I'll say it again, Marner can get his points but he wilts when games get tough and the chips are down. Matthews thriving despite not having Marner and instead having Domi says a lot to me.

 

[herman]

I'll say it again, Marner can get his points but he wilts when games get tough and the chips are down. Matthews thriving despite not having Marner and instead having Domi says a lot to me.

Who does Marner get his points off of, I wonder.

 

[Champ Kind]

Marner is objectively a better player overall than Nylander; however, the goal of the game is to have the best team in a hard cap environment for playoff hockey. I like having lots of good players, and in a vacuum, I've got lots of time for a Matthews-Marner-Nylander triumvirate.

The bottom line is the Leafs are in the Atlantic and for the foreseeable future will have to go through teams that
a) forecheck hard
b) defend hard
c) score bunches
d) have magical goalies at the moment

What Marner is good/great at:
- playing defensively responsible
- pulling off crazy seam passes
- logging a stupid number of minutes while playing at a well-above average level
- being extremely extra about holding the blueline to stay on side
- leveraging the Toronto media in contract negotiations

I'll re-iterate this isn't a Marner vs Nylander situation; it's a what style of hockey should the Leafs make their identity for sustained success in the playoffs. I think you're seeing it on line 1, 3, 4 right now: fassthole hockey.
[*]Speed: good skating, good routes, quick movement of the puck through the zones to keep defenses switching and thinking and reacting, rather than countering
[*]Tenacity: using positioning and assertiveness to disrupt plays, free up pucks, and win mini-1v1/2s all over the ice
[*]Sowing Chaos: in a game of inches with a weirdly shape thing to put in the net, skill has the most leverage over the odds when there is a lot of chaos. Shoot the puck on net; generate rebounds, make defensemen turn around and goalies move side to side. The super skilled players frequently turn nothing plays into goals because they are just a bit faster at processing what's happening, just a bit steadier at executing the stickwork required to corral the puck, and have the capacity to be deceptive and calculating in their shots.

I think Marner is capable of playing fassthole hockey and I know he's coming back from a tough injury, but it's been several seasons of him demonstrating a severe allergy to playing direct hockey when there's limited time and space. Historically, the playoff Leafs have played to the level of whatever Marner was giving. Away from Matthews, I could easily sub in Calle Jarnkrok for everything Marner has offered at 5v5/PK this whole season without batting an eye (and Keefe did just that in the 3rd!). Matthews has shown repeatedly he has never really needed Marner to succeed. Coupled with the prospect of a contentious and reputationally disastrous negotiation, I'd rather save my cap space for a centre and another top-4 D in his prime. And I haven't even said anything about how Marner's tendencies on the PP neuter the Leafs every playoffs once the other team watches like 2 videos.

Extremely well said and accurate.  As Herman says, if this was 2002 then assemble as many good, high-priced players as you can.  In 2024, you have to make choices, and I'm aligned with Herman in that Marner's $11-12M need to be distributed elsewhere.

Plus, Domi is doing a pretty darn fine Marner impression playing on 1A.

 

[herman]

Plus, Domi is doing a pretty darn fine Marner impression playing on 1A.

Oh man, I hated how Domi played at the beginning of the year, and kind of how he played at times as 3C, but he is really doing well as Matthews' winger.

 

[cw]

Some interesting ideas on the lines have been put forward.

I'm uncomfortable concluding too much after a couple of games with respect to Marner.
Not that numbers are everything but his collective playoff numbers are very respectable since 2017.
He does a lot of things. He is not a gigantic problem to me. You can't have a team full of Sasquatches and expect to win either. The game requires some skill.

I do think they miss McMann's physical two way play. I'm sort of bugged that they're not saying anything about his return. I thought he was the perfect add to the roster to counter a team like the Bruins.

I think they miss Nylander more. He's like putting an insane person on blades.
You don't know what he's going to do. He probably doesn't either until it happens.
How do you defend that? Defensively is another story.

The weakest part of this team is its goaltending and penalty kill.
If they stop the stupid penalties, they proved last night that they can beat these Bruins.
They outplayed them. They won more of the puck battles. Territorial edge. etc.

A current playoff PK of 57% is obviously not going to get the job done if you try to rely on it a lot.
Neither will their regular season PK of 76.9% ranked 23rd in the league.
The deadline moves did not fix it.
They need to stay clear of it.
If they do, they could win this series.

To me, that vastly overwhelms any chatter about Marner.