Ranking Prospects Post-Matthews
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
herman
Well-known member
There might be a bit of confusion due to my mushing PPP's T25U25 into a thread titled Ranking Prospects. The goal of the T25U25 is to rank our talent pool just shy of the standard development inflection point (before the chaff is separated from the wheat), so it contains a mix of prospects and (hopefully a lot of) full-timers.
Full timers usually get a heavier score due to having already 'made it' in some fashion, though there are caveats to that as bottom-6 or 5-6 d-pairings are far easier to make it in than top positions (e.g. Nylander and Marner scoring higher than Holland last year).
Full timers usually get a heavier score due to having already 'made it' in some fashion, though there are caveats to that as bottom-6 or 5-6 d-pairings are far easier to make it in than top positions (e.g. Nylander and Marner scoring higher than Holland last year).
Kin
Active member
TBLeafer said:
Right, you've made it abundantly clear that you think the distinction between prospect/not a prospect is a very important one. That's exactly the sort of semantic diversion that a "25 under 25" list seems specifically constructed to avoid though.
The unifying thing a 19 year old regular and a 19 year old who's been in Junior probably have is that the purpose of ranking them isn't based on the players they are right now but rather the projection of players they might be. That's true regardless of NHL experience and that's what these lists are about. It's a "who has the most potential in the system" list. Excluding players like Kadri and Gardiner is on the basis of them largely having become the players they're going to be rather than something arbitrary.
I mean, I guess I'll give asking one last try but this isn't about what you consider a prospect or whether or not you think the distinction between player/prospect is important. I'm asking us why we'd want to narrow the discussion as opposed to broaden it? What purpose does that serve as we assess young players?
bustaheims
Well-known member
TBLeafer said:
Until you're a well-established player, you're always auditioning - even when you're in the show.
TBLeafer said:
Because that was the scope the article went out to achieve, and it's fair in its scope - it's based on age bracket. That's it. Adding additional parameters unnecessarily distorts who our young players are and how good they are. As an example, leave Rielly off the list all you want - it's still an insane omission to make if we are judging our young, quality talent pool. I don't think anyone who's a Panthers fan would leave Ekblad off the top of their list of young players within the Panthers organization. I mean, by your definition Marner, Matthews, Nylander etc. will likely all be off this list next year, which makes our team's young players look incredibly shallow when it isn't.
Nik the Trik said:
And you get to either accept my prospect list as a prospect list in a prospects thread, or go off and create a T 25 U 25 rank of your own or discuss the one created on PPP, which personally I don't think belongs in this subforum because it includes full time NHL'ers. Go back to my original list and my disclaimer as to why I created it the way I did.
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Bender said:
I never clicked the link, I created my own pool and criteria, because if you're gonna rank Matthews and Marner and Nylander against Rielly, you might as well go ahead and rank them against JVR and Kadri and Gardiner too.
I choose to rank NHL'ers against NHL'ers and prospects against prospects.
So what if the prospect pool by my criteria looks more thinned out next season? The best ones have become NHL'ers, which is a more important list to comprise of top players than a prospect pool.
Coco-puffs
New member
TBLeafer said:
Wow, resorting to name calling... classy. Seriously though, herman brought up the PPP T25U25 and you responded to that by changing the parameters. Kudos for sticking to your guns, but you've basically stolen the topic from talking about the T25U25 into a discussion of what YOU care about. I say we just ignore you and just move on to talking about the T25U25.
TBLeafer said:
PPP.
Wasn't.
Ranking.
Prospects.
You admittedly never clicked on the link. Had you done so you might have known that.
Kin
Active member
TBLeafer said:
I don't know, I don't read him. But this isn't a list of prospects. Again, it seems pretty clearly designed to avoid that mess. There's probably a value in doing a prospects only list to the extent that if you're dealing with an American audience they're unlikely to get exposed to a lot of information about CHL or Euro league players and you want to focus analysis on guys who, unlike McDavid, hockey fans aren't likely to have seen.
But even still, whenever people do bring up things like HF's organizational rankings it's still valid to point out that their "graduation" standards distort the image of which team has the best young talent. List McDavid or don't, he's still pretty important to the question of Edmonton's organizational strength and how it projects going forward.
Coco-puffs said:
Which I invited anyone to do. I think a T 25 U 25 belongs in the main section because it includes full time NHL'ers.
I don't think its fair to rank an unproven prospect against a full time NHL'er and yes name calling because all Nik and Busta have tried to do is discredit my list since I created it using a perfectly accepted industry model. Multiple posters now (RL and BF) have had no problem discussing my list upon qualifying my criteria.
Neither Nik or Busta created legitimate lists but had no problem trying to paint mine as invalid when it comes to ranking prospects even though it is the very model the ENTIRE NHL uses.
But I guess here the PPP is more credible because in their list it allows for all players in the system under 25, that pitts prospects against full time NHL'ers.
Highlander
Active member
Or I could be arguing in my spare time, that was never 5 minites just now! 