Rielly

[Joe S.]

I guess in hindsight my opinion of JFJ is tainted by the rask trade much like people?s opinion of Burke is tainted by the kessel trade. So in fairness I guess I haven?t been objective and should look a little closer at his body of work in context.

And maybe it?s because I really liked Quinn and felt the organization was shafting him for no particular reason. Anyway my apologies I?ve pretty much derailed this thread.

 

[Kin]

And maybe it?s because I really liked Quinn and felt the organization was shafting him for no particular reason. Anyway my apologies I?ve pretty much derailed this thread.

It's the dog days of August. This thread, on the rails, was "should the Leafs possibly trade Rielly at some point". I think straying off-topic was ok.

 

[moon111]

Anyone else thing the rumors of the Leafs knocking on the Subban door have anything to do with the Leafs looking at Moving Rielly?  If his asking price is too much, would it make sense to deal him and acquire salary-retained Subban? 

 

[Zee]

Anyone else thing the rumors of the Leafs knocking on the Subban door have anything to do with the Leafs looking at Moving Rielly?  If his asking price is too much, would it make sense to deal him and acquire salary-retained Subban?

Eek, Subban's best days are behind him.  If Rielly goes I REALLY hope Sandin, Dermott and Lilejegren take huge steps this season to make up for it, but that's asking a lot.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Anyone else thing the rumors of the Leafs knocking on the Subban door have anything to do with the Leafs looking at Moving Rielly?  If his asking price is too much, would it make sense to deal him and acquire salary-retained Subban? 

That rumour originated from someone with less insider-cred than Eklund, so yeah don't pay any attention to it.

 

[moon111]

Morgan Rielly 1.03 pts/60  2.91 hits/60  2.81 blocked-shots/60  3.46 give-aways/60    0.87 takeaways/60
P.K. Subban    0.93 pts/60  2.50 hits/60  2.80 blocked-shots/60  2.74 give-aways/60    0.73 takeaways/60

I honestly don't think there's that much difference.  For today's immediate needs, think the question would be based on where Sandin is considered in his development.  If one sees him as fitting into this roster, does a LD become less important than a RD to the overall picture?  With Rielly gone, could he have a much better partner for his game in say Brodie than say Bogosain or Dermott?  Do you deal Fuhr for Andreychuk?  The answer is Felix Potvin.

How to judge P.K.?  Can defiantly see him being an improvement on the point.  He hasn't been exactly working with much team-wise.  There's maybe one player on Devils with a vastly superior points/60 over Pierre Engvall. (Andreas Johnsson wound up a 0.81 points/60 compared to a 2.05/60 while playing in Toronto)  P.K. has had some life things going on.  Wonder if he's been in contact at all with ex-teammate, Wayne Simmonds?  P.K. is always going to be P.K., but has he slowed down at all?  I actually think he thrives with attention so could he thrive in the fishbowl? 

Think this would all hinges on Morgan Rielly.  And perhaps this is just being done to send him a message, either sign a decent deal with us or go to the swamp for a season.  With 5 years difference between them, can't see this being a simple one-for-one, even if N.J. retained.  You would expect any deal to have some type of future included.  Or additional pieces to the puzzle.

Sandin Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Dermott P.K.

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Sandin Dermott

Overall, think P.K. might be more valuable to Toronto if he's someone who'll resign for the right price than someone who will price themselves off the team for nothing as a UFA.

 

[princedpw]

Morgan Rielly 1.03 pts/60  2.91 hits/60  2.81 blocked-shots/60  3.46 give-aways/60    0.87 takeaways/60
P.K. Subban    0.93 pts/60  2.50 hits/60  2.80 blocked-shots/60  2.74 give-aways/60    0.73 takeaways/60

Over what timeframe?  That seems key.  What do the last 2 years of the two players look like?

I'd also be tempted to look at the even-strength points.  PP points for a defenseman seem far more determined by opportunity and the players and system and around him.  We could sub in Sandin on the PP and not lose anything significant over Reilly (or Subban) I don't think.  We might even gain!

 

[herman]

Those are also none of the stats I would look at to measure defensemen.

 

[hobarth]

I expected TO to either sign or trade Rielly by this time, I'm disappointed neither has happened.

I think having a potential lame duck GM will be a very bad situation going forward, TO has allowed too many players to leave without being compensated and losing Rielly for nothing will not be worthwhile in any way except of course TO winning the Cup, unlikely but possible.

Dubie has probably only one goal for the team and that's immediate success, that goal probably means keeping Rielly this year no matter what, hoping that with Rielly TO's chances of progressing further in the playoffs are greater. He's probably right but being a lame duck GM also means that if TO doesn't progress, his tenure will end.

Dubie showed signs of panic last year by trading a 1st for Foligno who is an aged vet who has been obviously declining, for me it seemed a nonsensical move. Pretty well all of Dubie's moves have made sense but his tenuous grasp of his GM position might force him into even more desperate/dubious maneuvers, TO and we don't need that.

I would love to see TO win the Cup but I don't want the Cup at the expense of a sound future when even the now isn't assured.

At this time I see TO being in a position that might be very positive, TB has lost it's entire 3rd line from last year, Boston is weaker, Florida is well who knows, so TO's immediate future has perhaps never looked better but there's no guarantees. We need a GM who wants to build a sound team going forward rather than one who feels, probably realistically, that he must produce, now. 

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I expected TO to either sign or trade Rielly by this time, I'm disappointed neither has happened.

I think having a potential lame duck GM will be a very bad situation going forward, TO has allowed too many players to leave without being compensated and losing Rielly for nothing will not be worthwhile in any way except of course TO winning the Cup, unlikely but possible.

Dubie has probably only one goal for the team and that's immediate success, that goal probably means keeping Rielly this year no matter what, hoping that with Rielly TO's chances of progressing further in the playoffs are greater. He's probably right but being a lame duck GM also means that if TO doesn't progress, his tenure will end.

Dubie showed signs of panic last year by trading a 1st for Foligno who is an aged vet who has been obviously declining, for me it seemed a nonsensical move. Pretty well all of Dubie's moves have made sense but his tenuous grasp of his GM position might force him into even more desperate/dubious maneuvers, TO and we don't need that.

I would love to see TO win the Cup but I don't want the Cup at the expense of a sound future when even the now isn't assured.

At this time I see TO being in a position that might be very positive, TB has lost it's entire 3rd line from last year, Boston is weaker, Florida is well who knows, so TO's immediate future has perhaps never looked better but there's no guarantees. We need a GM who wants to build a sound team going forward rather than one who feels, probably realistically, that he must produce, now.

I actually think that by keeping Rielly, the Leafs have chosen the approach of "let's see if we're as good this year in a stronger division". If we are, we keep Rielly and sign him if we can. If we can't, sign him, and we don't feel we are in contention, we move him. If we are contending, we keep him as you're not replacing Rielly on a contending team very easily. Even if you are picking up a Dman at the deadline....chances are, he's equal at best with Rielly and also a UFA.