Sabres @ Leafs - Dec. 17th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[Chris]

That was a pretty goal by Matthews. But less showy, but Nylander actually made a very, very high skill play in setting it up. You'll see him rush the puck over the blueline as part of a stickhandling move to match the speed of the other winger entering the zone -he stays onside and keeps high momentum to take the two defencemen deep, leaving Matthews wide open and a clear lane.

https://twitter.com/TLNdc/status/1207112034959200256

Look at the brutal trip of Kapanen in front of the net as the puck goes in.

Can't really count that since even if the ref had in intention of calling the tripping penalty (and we'll never know one way or the other) it would have been negated by the goal.

Hard to tell from that video if the puck went in before the trip occurred. Certainly close. If there is a penalty at the same time a goal is scored, is the penalty negated? Or only if the penalty is obviously before?

The Dermott hit was the biggie, how is that not a boarding or late hit (interference) penalty at the very least? Especially with the ref looking right at the play.

 

[Bender]

That was a pretty goal by Matthews. But less showy, but Nylander actually made a very, very high skill play in setting it up. You'll see him rush the puck over the blueline as part of a stickhandling move to match the speed of the other winger entering the zone -he stays onside and keeps high momentum to take the two defencemen deep, leaving Matthews wide open and a clear lane.

https://twitter.com/TLNdc/status/1207112034959200256

Look at the brutal trip of Kapanen in front of the net as the puck goes in.

Can't really count that since even if the ref had in intention of calling the tripping penalty (and we'll never know one way or the other) it would have been negated by the goal.

Hard to tell from that video if the puck went in before the trip occurred. Certainly close. If there is a penalty at the same time a goal is scored, is the penalty negated? Or only if the penalty is obviously before?

The Dermott hit was the biggie, how is that not a boarding or late hit (interference) penalty at the very least? Especially with the ref looking right at the play.

When you have non-Leafs fans saying that was a horribly officiated game you know it must've been pretty bad.

 

[Hobbes]

Hard to tell from that video if the puck went in before the trip occurred. Certainly close. If there is a penalty at the same time a goal is scored, is the penalty negated? Or only if the penalty is obviously before?

The Dermott hit was the biggie, how is that not a boarding or late hit (interference) penalty at the very least? Especially with the ref looking right at the play.

As I understand it, a goal essentially negates any delayed penalty and any coincidental penalty that was part of the scoring play (like being tripped just as you or a teammate scores). If something occurs after the goal is scored (like someone roughing the goal-scorer or whatever) it can be assessed as a separate penalty and would apply after the goal.

The weird one is the very rare case where a goal is scored but the play isn't whistled down (one of those in-and-out ones that only gets caught after the fact via video review). At some point after that it's realized that a goal was scored, play stops, the clock is reset back to the time of the goal and there's a face off at center ice and anything that happened after that -- including the other team going the other way and scoring -- is wiped out. It's as though those missing seconds never happened except if either team takes a penalty of any sort during that "after-the-goal-non-time" it is still assessed as a penalty and has to be served. I think I remember one instance of that happening and the team that scored the goal ended up with a tripping penalty as well because about 30-45 seconds after the goal one of their players had tripped someone else.

I think it's safe to say that the laws of time and physics aren't of concern to the NHL officials...


And yes, that Dermott hit was definitely one that ought to have been called as a 2 minute penalty but I suspect the DOPS is correct in not assessing a 1 game suspension for it after the fact. It's a blown call, but it's not a suspension level offense (or didn't look like one to me...no head contact, didn't leave his feet, wasn't overtly predatory, doesn't have a history...it was just a badly blown call for a 2 minute boarding).

 

[bill0199]

What burns me about the Dermott hit is not so much the missed call, or the goal that resulted or the lack of suspension.  What bugs me is that there is not a doubt in my mind that Okposo felt even a moment of apprehension about playing the rest of the game and having to look over his shoulder because of possible retribution.  We have no one. Zero guys who will step in and make anyone think twice about taking a run at our players.  The most we see is a small scuffle and some very harsh words.  Maddening.  I?m not asking for a trade to get us a goon.  I just want this team to stick up for each other.

 

[Kin]

As I understand it, a goal essentially negates any delayed penalty and any coincidental penalty that was part of the scoring play (like being tripped just as you or a teammate scores).

It's a side issue but we should never not take an opportunity to mention just how stupid this rule is. Penalties should be called to punish players for rule infractions. They shouldn't be negated because the other team does something good.

 

[Hobbes]

As I understand it, a goal essentially negates any delayed penalty and any coincidental penalty that was part of the scoring play (like being tripped just as you or a teammate scores).

It's a side issue but we should never not take an opportunity to mention just how stupid this rule is. Penalties should be called to punish players for rule infractions. They shouldn't be negated because the other team does something good.

Yeah, I'm in the "serve the full duration of the penalty" camp too. If the penalized team has 2 or 3 goals goals scored against it during a 2 minute penalty, great. Unfortunately that's most likely something that would make refs even more reluctant to call the play impartially.

 

[ZBBM]

I guess with his concussion history he forgot there?s no place for this when he drilled Dermott into the boards late and on the numbers. 
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/okposo-halls-dangerous-hit-behind-theres-no-place/

Good point!

 

[Andy007]

What burns me about the Dermott hit is not so much the missed call, or the goal that resulted or the lack of suspension.  What bugs me is that there is not a doubt in my mind that Okposo felt even a moment of apprehension about playing the rest of the game and having to look over his shoulder because of possible retribution.  We have no one. Zero guys who will step in and make anyone think twice about taking a run at our players.  The most we see is a small scuffle and some very harsh words.  Maddening.  I?m not asking for a trade to get us a goon.  I just want this team to stick up for each other.

You mean like how Colorado stood up for each other by losing 5-3 after Kerfoot ran Johnson into the boards? Or how Okposo got the last laugh....by also losing? I'm not even so sure that having a guy who will "make someone think twice" about taking runs at someone is a thing. Guys get run all of the time regardless of what tough guy is sitting on the bench...or even on the same line.  This hit isn't an issue with Toronto's lack of toughness; this is an NHL issue. For some reason they are completely inconsistent and arbitrary when it comes to who gets hearings and why and what discipline they choose to dole out.

 

[Kin]

I've seen the Leafs, at various points, have players like Colton Orr, Ken Baumgartner, Tie Domi, Kris King, Wade Belak, Wendel Clark, Shayne Corson, Luke Richardson, etc.

At no point did the presence of those players mean the other teams never took risky or dangerous hits on the Leafs players.

I know people think that the decline in fighting came about tactically or because people got really concerned about the fighter's health but I think the reality is that people wised up to the fact that the supposed "retribution" that they were there for didn't actually ever happen. Either the aggressor in these dangerous hits was someone like Cam Janssen who could hold his own in a fight and so having to fight someone was no terrible consqeuence or it was someone like Steve Moore who could just turn down a fight and be free of retribution so long there wasn't a spontaneous case of attempted murder.

Like, if the Leafs had someone last night who would have given Okposo a face wash in the boards or a couple of gloved punches in a scrum, does anyone really think that would fundamentally alter the way he played hockey?

 

[Guilt Trip]

What burns me about the Dermott hit is not so much the missed call, or the goal that resulted or the lack of suspension.  What bugs me is that there is not a doubt in my mind that Okposo felt even a moment of apprehension about playing the rest of the game and having to look over his shoulder because of possible retribution.  We have no one. Zero guys who will step in and make anyone think twice about taking a run at our players.  The most we see is a small scuffle and some very harsh words.  Maddening.  I?m not asking for a trade to get us a goon.  I just want this team to stick up for each other.

FROM ABOVE...So Matthews did do something that wasn't caught by the cameras.

Was at the game last night on the side where Dermott got hit. Matthews definitely grabbed Okposo as he was getting off and wouldn?t let him go to the Sabres bench. There were a few heated exchanges and a good cross check from Matthews. For a few seconds it almost looked like Matthews was going to drop the gloves, but the linesman came in after that.
Wouldn?t want Matthews to fight, but good to see too.

Posted  by unavoidable  on Dec 18, 2019 | 9:44 AM

 

[Highlander]

I wouldn't mind to see Marchment at some point on the 4th line. He has been a very decent Marlie and not afraid to scrap if he has to.  Some sandpaper with some talent, not just a goon, and I detest fighting in hockey and have for a long long time. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/BradyTrett/status/1207504129171415043

League fined Girard $2k for this today. I mean yeah that's peanuts but it still goes on his record. I'm not sure how that's worse than the Okposo hit in the league's eyes.

 

[Highlander]

https://twitter.com/BradyTrett/status/1207504129171415043

League fined Girard $2k for this today. I mean yeah that's peanuts but it still goes on his record. I'm not sure how that's worse than the Okposo hit in the league's eyes.

What, boarderline, he didn't hit the boards that hard or headfirst.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/BradyTrett/status/1207504129171415043

League fined Girard $2k for this today. I mean yeah that's peanuts but it still goes on his record. I'm not sure how that's worse than the Okposo hit in the league's eyes.

What, boarderline, he didn't hit the boards that hard or headfirst.

It was late would be my guess. It's almost a second after he passes the puck and it's in slow motion.

 

[L K]

https://twitter.com/BradyTrett/status/1207504129171415043

League fined Girard $2k for this today. I mean yeah that's peanuts but it still goes on his record. I'm not sure how that's worse than the Okposo hit in the league's eyes.

I know and I think it?s because Paris shouldn?t be in that job.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/ingy56/status/1207647392570445825

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Hey, in the NHL's defence, they apparently did think it should have been a penalty.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

While I obviously agree with the message of the tweet I do love it when people tag DOPS in stuff on twitter. Do people actually think Parros or anyone involved with it are actually the ones running it?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

https://twitter.com/BradyTrett/status/1207504129171415043

League fined Girard $2k for this today. I mean yeah that's peanuts but it still goes on his record. I'm not sure how that's worse than the Okposo hit in the league's eyes.

What, boarderline, he didn't hit the boards that hard or headfirst.

It was late would be my guess. It's almost a second after he passes the puck and it's in slow motion.

Late and he's a vulnerable player. The hit served no purpose.