Sheldon Keefe has been relieved of his role as head coach

[cw]

Leafs kind of own his rights for the next 2 years tho. Is he allowed to coach in the A and not give up his salary?

No clue! Will he even want to go back to the bus, after several seasons of charter flights?

I don't see him going back to the bus

Hardly any NHL coaches last more than 5 years in one place. Keefe was one of the longest tenured coaches in the league. In the next five years, there will probably be well more than 32 NHL head coaching jobs open up.

When I posted the list of available coaches with NHL head coaching experience in the "who is the next Leafs coach" (whatever it is named) thread, I said to myself "I think I like Keefe more than most of those guys (some I don't know very well)".

No one can look at what happened in Toronto over the last 12 months and suggest the drop in talent on his roster (that the coach does not control) did not have a significant impact on the teams results - as it did in many prior seasons.

 

[ZBBM]

Anyway Keefe is a good coach. I have no doubt he'll get hired somewhere relatively quickly and have success. But this was very clearly at least one year too late.

I think he's a mediocre coach gifted with talent.  Inexcusable how he couldn't adjust when aspects of the team's game went south, the PP this time a case in point.

 

[cw]

If he does, he effectively forfeits his new 2 year Leafs contract.

I don't think he outright forfeits it. My understanding is his new employer could basically pick up the tab on that contract, or they only go to the amount they offered, and the Leafs get a discounted amount to pay out.

That isn't how Mike Babcock's deal worked. Mike sat on the sidelines until the day that contract ended.

Mike could go coach a new team for a $1 a year and the Leafs would have to pick up the balance? I don't think so.

 

[Peter D.]

Had to be done.  As I suggested the other day, would not surprise me one bit if he makes his way to Pittsburgh.

He isn't a horrible coach.  Don't think he is a really good one either though.  He's just...fine.  He'll get another job.  But tagging him as the one to lead this franchise to glory, only to fritter away a good chunk of the prime years of Matthews, Marner and Nylander, cannot be dismissed.  He did not get the job done (or anywhere close to it), and he was rightfully let go because of it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If he does, he effectively forfeits his new 2 year Leafs contract.

I don't think he outright forfeits it. My understanding is his new employer could basically pick up the tab on that contract, or they only go to the amount they offered, and the Leafs get a discounted amount to pay out.

That isn't how Mike Babcock's deal worked. Mike sat on the sidelines until the day that contract ended.

Mike could go coach a new team for a $1 a year and the Leafs would have to pick up the balance? I don't think so.

99% if a coach is fired with term left it's pretty easy for that coach to still get hired elsewhere, either by working out some agreement with the two teams for payment or by just having the original contract terminated. If Keefe wanted to get a job tomorrow I don't think his current deal would really prevent anything.

Babcock's contract was obviously a little more complicated situation considering the significant dollars attached to it. But regardless he did seem content just chilling and letting the deal ride out.

 

[bustaheims]

He isn't a horrible coach.  Don't think he is a really good one either though.  He's just...fine.  He'll get another job.  But tagging him as the one to lead this franchise to glory, only to fritter away a good chunk of the prime years of Matthews, Marner and Nylander, cannot be dismissed.  He did not get the job done (or anywhere close to it), and he was rightfully let go because of it.

This is sort of how I see him, as well. He's not a bad coach. If he was, we would have seen much more underperformance in the regular season under his watch, less buy-in to his systems, etc. He just didn't show himself to be a particularly good coach. His lack of playoff success bears that out. I suspect he'll learn from this experience and be better in his next job.

Ultimately, the Leafs needed a new voice behind the bench, and now, they're going to get one. Whether they get the right one obviously remains to be seen.

 

[cw]

99% if a coach is fired with term left it's pretty easy for that coach to still get hired elsewhere, either by working out some agreement with the two teams for payment or by just having the original contract terminated. If Keefe wanted to get a job tomorrow I don't think his current deal would really prevent anything.

They fired him. They cannot prevent him from going to work as a coach elsewhere.
However, I cannot imagine they contracted to continue to pay him while he's coaching another team against their team.

It is contract law. I'm sure they have this all laid out because most coaches end up getting fired. Both parties have to abide by that agreement. There are clauses both parties have to abide by if he is dismissed. Commonly, he can sit at home and collect until his contract runs out. If he wants to do something else, then it has to be covered by his contract. Going to coach for another team is very unlikely to be covered because it is a way to pressure him to let them off the hook on the balance of his contract if someone else is going to hire him.

He can certainly phone up and ask to work something out but tough love has commonly been the response to get that coach off their books. Asking the MLSE board to endorse paying someone to coach against their team - in the NHL or their AHL affiliate would be a pretty tough sell. The contract very likely already says "NO!!"

EDIT: We commonly refer to coaches as being 'fired' Legally, they're usually still under contract 'relieved of their duties'. There are bound to be clauses in there that allow them to seek other employment while 'relieved of their duties' but if they're 'successful', the clauses would stipulate the termination of that contract. something like that.

 

[dappleganger]

Keefe did a better job with the Leafs than Mike Babcock did. He got the Leafs forwards to play defence, maybe to their detriment.

Sheldon will to a good job as the next coach of the Seattle Kraken.

 

[bustaheims]

EDIT: We commonly refer to coaches as being 'fired' Legally, they're usually still under contract 'relieved of their duties'. There are bound to be clauses in there that allow them to seek other employment while 'relieved of their duties' but if they're 'successful', the clauses would stipulate the termination of that contract. something like that.

They're rare, but there have definitely been cases of teams not allowing coaches/execs who were relieved of duties and denied opportunities to pursue other employment within the NHL - often, it was just a delay tactic, though. As they're under contract, teams have the right to refuse the opportunity for others to even discuss potential job openings.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/SheldonKeefe/status/1788600739310309623
Buddy is relieved in more than the duties way

Good luck on the next one, Keefe

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He can certainly phone up and ask to work something out but tough love has commonly been the response to get that coach off their books. Asking the MLSE board to endorse paying someone to coach against their team - in the NHL or their AHL affiliate would be a pretty tough sell. The contract very likely already says "NO!!"

Well yeah sure but I don't think anyone suggested this would be the case though.

We're mostly on the same page here. Again if Keefe wants a job something will need to be worked out with all parties and there's likely already something in the language of his current contract that would make this possible someway somehow. There's basically 3 options: 1) his new team picks up the entirety of whatever his salary is with the Leafs , 2) his new team picks up the vast majority of whatever his salary is with the Leafs and Toronto makes him whole for the rest, 3) Keefe and the Leafs simply mutually agree to terminate his existing contract and Keefe goes wherever he wants for whatever he wants.

Options 1 and 3 would be the most likely options here. Option 2 is probably not something the Leafs would push for because of their pockets, but teams without the size of MLSE's cheque book would likely jump at the chance of not having to pay a relieved coach their full salary.

 

[Peter D.]

https://twitter.com/SheldonKeefe/status/1788600739310309623
Buddy is relieved in more than the duties way

Good luck on the next one, Keefe

Think that was well said and done.

He also looks more relaxed and at ease already.  Certainly doesn't hurt being wherever he is with that water behind him. LOL

Can say what we want about these guys as coaches and players, yet at the end of the day they're human too.  So as much as I/we may want to see them gone from the team we love and support, their humility and livelihoods outside of the rink have to be respected as well as they too are sons, brothers and fathers.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/SheldonKeefe/status/1788600739310309623
Buddy is relieved in more than the duties way

Good luck on the next one, Keefe

That was a great farewell.

 

[Joe S.]

Anyway Keefe is a good coach. I have no doubt he'll get hired somewhere relatively quickly and have success. But this was very clearly at least one year too late.

I think he's a mediocre coach gifted with talent.  Inexcusable how he couldn't adjust when aspects of the team's game went south, the PP this time a case in point.

I?m not quite sure what my point is here, because I?m not really disagreeing with you but I used to see the exact same comments about Quinn, and I think he was the best coach I ever saw with the leafs, next to Burns.

 

[Chris]

Nice goodbye video. I like the guy, but it was definitely (past) time for a change.

So step 1 is completed. Step 2, hire the right coaching staff. I don't know who that is, so I won't get into that debate. Step 3, big picture decisions on the roster. Can't wait to see how things evolve. If they decide to essentially "run it back" with a new coaching staff, I'm OK with that. But would also be OK with moving Marner out. Kind of glad I don't have to make decisions like that!

 

[cw]

He can certainly phone up and ask to work something out but tough love has commonly been the response to get that coach off their books. Asking the MLSE board to endorse paying someone to coach against their team - in the NHL or their AHL affiliate would be a pretty tough sell. The contract very likely already says "NO!!"

Well yeah sure but I don't think anyone suggested this would be the case though.

We're mostly on the same page here. Again if Keefe wants a job something will need to be worked out with all parties and there's likely already something in the language of his current contract that would make this possible someway somehow. There's basically 3 options: 1) his new team picks up the entirety of whatever his salary is with the Leafs , 2) his new team picks up the vast majority of whatever his salary is with the Leafs and Toronto makes him whole for the rest, 3) Keefe and the Leafs simply mutually agree to terminate his existing contract and Keefe goes wherever he wants for whatever he wants.

Options 1 and 3 would be the most likely options here. Option 2 is probably not something the Leafs would push for because of their pockets, but teams without the size of MLSE's cheque book would likely jump at the chance of not having to pay a relieved coach their full salary.

In response to the bolded part:
Sure they would but the Leafs have to concern themselves with the precedent, etc.
They do enough of that in revenue sharing.

I could easily see #1 or #3 because the other experienced NHL coaching options don't look that great/deep. Keefe will probably rise to near the top of that list pretty quickly. Some of them were good but they're too old.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that we wind up with a worse coach. Obviously, I hope that doesn't happen. You would hope that Leafs would attract the very best. When I looked at that list of available NHL coaches, I started to appreciate Keefe more.

 

[cw]

https://twitter.com/SheldonKeefe/status/1788600739310309623
Buddy is relieved in more than the duties way

Good luck on the next one, Keefe

That was a great farewell.

Sure was

 

[Bender]

Anyway Keefe is a good coach. I have no doubt he'll get hired somewhere relatively quickly and have success. But this was very clearly at least one year too late.

I think he's a mediocre coach gifted with talent.  Inexcusable how he couldn't adjust when aspects of the team's game went south, the PP this time a case in point.

I?m not quite sure what my point is here, because I?m not really disagreeing with you but I used to see the exact same comments about Quinn, and I think he was the best coach I ever saw with the leafs, next to Burns.

I loved Pat Quinn. I was a child when the Leafs had Pat Burns and all his yelling kinda scared me lol.

 

[Bender]

He can certainly phone up and ask to work something out but tough love has commonly been the response to get that coach off their books. Asking the MLSE board to endorse paying someone to coach against their team - in the NHL or their AHL affiliate would be a pretty tough sell. The contract very likely already says "NO!!"

Well yeah sure but I don't think anyone suggested this would be the case though.

We're mostly on the same page here. Again if Keefe wants a job something will need to be worked out with all parties and there's likely already something in the language of his current contract that would make this possible someway somehow. There's basically 3 options: 1) his new team picks up the entirety of whatever his salary is with the Leafs , 2) his new team picks up the vast majority of whatever his salary is with the Leafs and Toronto makes him whole for the rest, 3) Keefe and the Leafs simply mutually agree to terminate his existing contract and Keefe goes wherever he wants for whatever he wants.

Options 1 and 3 would be the most likely options here. Option 2 is probably not something the Leafs would push for because of their pockets, but teams without the size of MLSE's cheque book would likely jump at the chance of not having to pay a relieved coach their full salary.

In response to the bolded part:
Sure they would but the Leafs have to concern themselves with the precedent, etc.
They do enough of that in revenue sharing.

I could easily see #1 or #3 because the other experienced NHL coaching options don't look that great/deep. Keefe will probably rise to near the top of that list pretty quickly. Some of them were good but they're too old.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that we wind up with a worse coach. Obviously, I hope that doesn't happen. You would hope that Leafs would attract the very best. When I looked at that list of available NHL coaches, I started to appreciate Keefe more.

Mike Sullivan Firing.... imminent

 

[bustaheims]

I?m not quite sure what my point is here, because I?m not really disagreeing with you but I used to see the exact same comments about Quinn, and I think he was the best coach I ever saw with the leafs, next to Burns.

Quinn was great. Just got a little stale at the end, like basically all long-term coaches inevitably. Same with Burns, he just got there a little quicker (4 seasons seemed to be about as long as he could last anywhere).