Should the Leafs grab Yakupov if he's Waived?

[TBLeafer]

Nah, they can roll 3 scoring lines and a grinding line with all the young skill they'll have.

It's not really debatable. Right now that's either already the plan and they have guys in mind for those spots or that's not the plan. Either way bringing in Yakupov and putting him in one of those spots or going with three scoring lines would change things. I appreciate that you're saying you think it would be a positive change but that's immaterial to the fact that it would be a change.

Not really.  Take Brown for instance.  While he does work hard at both ends of the ice, he isn't exactly known for his defensive ability on RW.  I can see Yak taking his spot, on the right side with Bozak, who is used to playing with a high skill offensive winger.  Just the quality of that skilled winger, goes up.  The plan doesn't change.

As for this season's team from last season's team at the start of the season.  The roster will already be more than 50% changed.

The roster at camp changes on a nightly basis.  Injuries cause change to the roster.  So in the case of the roster personnel, you are correct, it would be a change.

In terms of the plan, not so much.

 

[Kin]

Not really.  Take Brown for instance.  While he does work hard at both ends of the ice, he isn't exactly known for his defensive ability on RW.  I can see Yak taking his spot, on the right side with Bozak, who is used to playing with a high skill offensive winger.  Just the quality of that skilled winger, goes up.  The plan doesn't change.

Well, leaving aside the fact that I don't think Brown is in that spot right now I think it's important to point out that none of these things happen in isolation. Using your example, sure, Yakupov comes in and Brown goes out. But what happens to Brown? Is he a Marlie then? If so, who does he play with on the Marlies? The Marlies already have a ton of interesting prospects fighting for spots, who does he push down? Who gets sent to Orlando? How does it effect the strategy, say, of the Marlies PP which you would assume is tailored to the strengths of the players on it rather than simply being a one-size fits all affair. These are all factors to be considered. All of those things are part of the various plans the team has going forward, both for individuals and the teams in question.

Which is were we get back to the point I was making. "Disruptive to the team's plans" was second in a list of three and they're all connected. If I thought it was a move with higher upside or likelier to succeed, then those questions would be less important. As is, I wouldn't shuffle around the Leafs or Marlies roster to see if Yakupov would be a fit. He just hasn't shown enough in Edmonton and the fact that McLellan seems to have no spot for him is pretty telling.

But don't worry. You've made it clear you would claim Nail Yakupov if he hits waivers.

 

[TBLeafer]

Not really.  Take Brown for instance.  While he does work hard at both ends of the ice, he isn't exactly known for his defensive ability on RW.  I can see Yak taking his spot, on the right side with Bozak, who is used to playing with a high skill offensive winger.  Just the quality of that skilled winger, goes up.  The plan doesn't change.

Well, leaving aside the fact that I don't think Brown is in that spot right now I think it's important to point out that none of these things happen in isolation. Using your example, sure, Yakupov comes in and Brown goes out. But what happens to Brown? Is he a Marlie then? If so, who does he play with on the Marlies? The Marlies already have a ton of interesting prospects fighting for spots, who does he push down? Who gets sent to Orlando? How does it effect the strategy, say, of the Marlies PP which you would assume is tailored to the strengths of the players on it rather than simply being a one-size fits all affair. These are all factors to be considered. All of those things are part of the various plans the team has going forward, both for individuals and the teams in question.

Which is were we get back to the point I was making. "Disruptive to the team's plans" was second in a list of three and they're all connected. If I thought it was a move with higher upside or likelier to succeed, then those questions would be less important. As is, I wouldn't shuffle around the Leafs or Marlies roster to see if Yakupov would be a fit. He just hasn't shown enough in Edmonton and the fact that McLellan seems to have no spot for him is pretty telling.

But don't worry. You've made it clear you would claim Nail Yakupov if he hits waivers.

So in other words. Every time a professional sports team, or any team for that matter brings in an outside player not in their team's current system, it is disruptive to their team building plans, got it.

Yes we have a deep prospect pool now.  Its a good problem to have.  Yes it could set the timeline back a bit from minor league to pro for Brown.  But maybe by only a month or two if Yak still busts under Babs, should they pick him up off waivers.  They won't be trading for him.

This kinda thing happens all the time.  Teams and players deal.

 

[Kin]

\
So in other words. Every time a professional sports team, or any team for that matter brings in an outside player not in their team's current system, it is disruptive to their team building plans, got it.

Well, no. Bringing in a player during the off-season doesn't disrupt a plan already in place because the off-season is when teams start formulating their ideas and looking for holes to fill. Bringing in someone like Enroth didn't change their plan because clearly their plan was to acquire a back-up goalie via free agency. A team can, on its own, decide to pursue the best available back-up goalie in the off-season. You can't game plan around a specific player being made available on waivers.

Right now, the Leafs have to formulate a plan based on the idea that Yakupov isn't available. That plan is in place. Bringing him in would change things. That is incontrovertibly true.

But, again, change isn't necessarily a positive or negative thing. Like I said, "disrupting the plans" was one of three connected reasons. If you were bringing in someone demonstrably better than the options they already had, that disruption would be less of a concern. As is, part of my rationale for why I wouldn't claim him is that he doesn't present enough of an upgrade to shake things up.

 

[TBLeafer]

\
So in other words. Every time a professional sports team, or any team for that matter brings in an outside player not in their team's current system, it is disruptive to their team building plans, got it.

Well, no. Bringing in a player during the off-season doesn't disrupt a plan already in place because the off-season is when teams start formulating their ideas and looking for holes to fill. Bringing in someone like Enroth didn't change their plan because clearly their plan was to acquire a back-up goalie via free agency. A team can, on its own, decide to pursue the best available back-up goalie in the off-season. You can't game plan around a specific player being made available on waivers.

Right now, the Leafs have to formulate a plan based on the idea that Yakupov isn't available. That plan is in place. Bringing him in would change things. That is incontrovertibly true.

But, again, change isn't necessarily a positive or negative thing. Like I said, "disrupting the plans" was one of three connected reasons. If you were bringing in someone demonstrably better than the options they already had, that disruption would be less of a concern. As is, part of my rationale for why I wouldn't claim him is that he doesn't present enough of an upgrade to shake things up.

Gotcha.  Which is why IMO he'd get the Corrado treatment from last season to ensure that disruption wouldn't be a concern if/when they give him his first game.

 

[bustaheims]

Gotcha.  Which is why IMO he'd get the Corrado treatment from last season to ensure that disruption wouldn't be a concern if/when they give him his first game.

Except that the "Corrado treatment" wasn't about getting him acclimated to the system, it was about getting him completely healthy before playing him on a regular basis. He had just come off an injury and had strength issues. He was cleared to play, so he couldn't get put on the IR.

Yakupov, other hand, is healthy (at least, he appears to be). You're suggesting benching a healthy player for half the season, and tying up $2.5M of the cap for the privilege (and potentially sacrificing another asset) - all while hoping he's happy enough with the situation not raise a stink or be a problem child - just to see if maybe he can turn things around enough to be a high value piece moving forward. There's way too much potential for negative to account for the slim potential for positive.

 

[Andy007]

No.

 

[TBLeafer]

Gotcha.  Which is why IMO he'd get the Corrado treatment from last season to ensure that disruption wouldn't be a concern if/when they give him his first game.

Except that the "Corrado treatment" wasn't about getting him acclimated to the system, it was about getting him completely healthy before playing him on a regular basis. He had just come off an injury and had strength issues. He was cleared to play, so he couldn't get put on the IR.

Yakupov, other hand, is healthy (at least, he appears to be). You're suggesting benching a healthy player for half the season, and tying up $2.5M of the cap for the privilege (and potentially sacrificing another asset) - all while hoping he's happy enough with the situation not raise a stink or be a problem child - just to see if maybe he can turn things around enough to be a high value piece moving forward. There's way too much potential for negative to account for the slim potential for positive.

Who said half a season? One month or two tops, then he's fully incorporated or waived again. Point is there's zero risk if cap is cleared.

 

[bustaheims]

Who said half a season? One month or two tops, then he's fully incorporated or waived again. Point is there's zero risk if cap is cleared.

That's clearly not true. There's the risk that they player they move to clear cap proves to be the more valuable asset. There's the risk that no one claims Yakupov, and he ends up being an additional $1.6M in dead cap space - which could result in increased cap overages. There's a number of risks you're either ignoring or downplaying. There's a lot more realistic risk than there is realistic reward.

 

[TBLeafer]

Who said half a season? One month or two tops, then he's fully incorporated or waived again. Point is there's zero risk if cap is cleared.

That's clearly not true. There's the risk that they player they move to clear cap proves to be the more valuable asset. There's the risk that no one claims Yakupov, and he ends up being an additional $1.6M in dead cap space - which could result in increased cap overages. There's a number of risks you're either ignoring or downplaying. There's a lot more realistic risk than there is realistic reward.

Agree to disagree then.  It won't take much to move a depth player and clear enough cap.  Polak for instance.  Plus there are no more re-entry waivers.  No need to roll a 23 man roster with 8 D.  Plus at Polak's cap hit, he's pretty much waiver proof at this time of year. 

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Maybe playing with two seasoned vets in Michalek and Bozak, or JVR and Bozak could give him the spark he needs.  Maybe a look with Kadri and Komarov.

He's 22 for heaven's sake.  Outproduced Stamkos.  It could merely be a case of a mismanaged asset in Edmonton which is hardly a stretch.

A two month experiment on a rebuilding team posing very minimal risk in what was once the league's TOP prospect in his draft year if we have to give up NOTHING to get him.

 

[herman]

He's 22 for heaven's sake.  Outproduced Stamkos.  It could merely be a case of a mismanaged asset in Edmonton which is hardly a stretch.

Are you talking about in the NHL or with Sarnia?

 

[TBLeafer]

He's 22 for heaven's sake.  Outproduced Stamkos.  It could merely be a case of a mismanaged asset in Edmonton which is hardly a stretch.

Are you talking about in the NHL or with Sarnia?

OHL of course. 

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Who said half a season? One month or two tops, then he's fully incorporated or waived again. Point is there's zero risk if cap is cleared.

That's clearly not true. There's the risk that they player they move to clear cap proves to be the more valuable asset. There's the risk that no one claims Yakupov, and he ends up being an additional $1.6M in dead cap space - which could result in increased cap overages. There's a number of risks you're either ignoring or downplaying. There's a lot more realistic risk than there is realistic reward.

Agree to disagree then.  It won't take much to move a depth player and clear enough cap.  Polak for instance.  Plus there are no more re-entry waivers.  No need to roll a 23 man roster with 8 D.  Plus at Polak's cap hit, he's pretty much waiver proof at this time of year. 

As long as Babcock is in the press saying the team is too 'light', Polak is going nowhere.

 

[Kaberle15]

Agree to disagree then.  It won't take much to move a depth player and clear enough cap.  Polak for instance.  Plus there are no more re-entry waivers.  No need to roll a 23 man roster with 8 D.  Plus at Polak's cap hit, he's pretty much waiver proof at this time of year. 

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Maybe playing with two seasoned vets in Michalek and Bozak, or JVR and Bozak could give him the spark he needs.  Maybe a look with Kadri and Komarov.

He's 22 for heaven's sake.  Outproduced Stamkos.  It could merely be a case of a mismanaged asset in Edmonton which is hardly a stretch.

A two month experiment on a rebuilding team posing very minimal risk in what was once the league's TOP prospect in his draft year if we have to give up NOTHING to get him.

I Agree, if he is waived they should claim him. And of the cost is the Leafs waiving Greening, I'm fine with it.

 

[louisstamos]

I'm pretty sure even if he's waived and sent to the Marlies, Yakupov would put us over the cap.  So, as a waiver wire pickup, no.  If they want to take salary back for him (Michalek?  Greening?  Both of whom I'd have a temptation to keep because of their potential return at the deadline), then I'd consider it.

 

[TBLeafer]

I'm pretty sure even if he's waived and sent to the Marlies, Yakupov would put us over the cap.  So, as a waiver wire pickup, no.  If they want to take salary back for him (Michalek?  Greening?  Both of whom I'd have a temptation to keep because of their potential return at the deadline), then I'd consider it.

NHL has approved Cowen's buyout.  We have over 2 Mil in available cap before needing to use LTIR.  Yak's hit is 2.5M.  Need to just waive a contract that frees up less than 500K.  Very doable to remain cap compliant by the start of the season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

 

[bustaheims]

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Two of those three players are unlikely to make the Opening Night roster as it is, and the third is far more suited to the 3rd/4th line role he'll be filling than Yakupov. He doesn't represent an upgrade over any of the players that will be filling the type of role you'd be using him in. That, combined with the salary cap implications (which are more significant than simply being below the ceiling - the Leafs need to be far enough below the ceiling not to push significant bonus dollars into the 17/18 season's cap), and other potential issue make it an extremely easy no.

 

[TBLeafer]

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Two of those three players are unlikely to make the Opening Night roster as it is, and the third is far more suited to the 3rd/4th line role he'll be filling than Yakupov. He doesn't represent an upgrade over any of the players that will be filling the type of role you'd be using him in. That, combined with the salary cap implications (which are more significant than simply being below the ceiling - the Leafs need to be far enough below the ceiling not to push significant bonus dollars into the 17/18 season's cap), and other potential issue make it an extremely easy no.

So you don't realize how much cap we're clearing come season's end then.  Got it.  It makes it an extremely easy no for you.  Your position is not gospel.  Its an extremely easy yes for me, given our option to waive him as well if things don't work out with him.

If he isn't waived this all becomes moot anyway and just remains a matter of opinion. 

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Two of those three players are unlikely to make the Opening Night roster as it is, and the third is far more suited to the 3rd/4th line role he'll be filling than Yakupov. He doesn't represent an upgrade over any of the players that will be filling the type of role you'd be using him in. That, combined with the salary cap implications (which are more significant than simply being below the ceiling - the Leafs need to be far enough below the ceiling not to push significant bonus dollars into the 17/18 season's cap), and other potential issue make it an extremely easy no.

So you don't realize how much cap we're clearing come season's end then.  Got it.  It makes it an extremely easy no for you.  Your position is not gospel.  Its an extremely easy yes for me, given our option to waive him as well if things don't work out with him.

If he isn't waived this all becomes moot anyway and just remains a matter of opinion.

If I had to take on another team's garbage, Edmonton is pretty low on the list of teams I'd choose. Honestly, It's a coin flip between him and a guy like Leivo for me. I don't think either will make a big impact in the league, but might be serviceable players... maybe. And, well, I like Leivo's salary better. And please don't assume I 'don't realize how much cap we're clearing come season's end', just because I disagree with your opinion.

 

[TBLeafer]

Yak>Leivo
Yak>Greening
At present, Yak>Brown

Two of those three players are unlikely to make the Opening Night roster as it is, and the third is far more suited to the 3rd/4th line role he'll be filling than Yakupov. He doesn't represent an upgrade over any of the players that will be filling the type of role you'd be using him in. That, combined with the salary cap implications (which are more significant than simply being below the ceiling - the Leafs need to be far enough below the ceiling not to push significant bonus dollars into the 17/18 season's cap), and other potential issue make it an extremely easy no.

So you don't realize how much cap we're clearing come season's end then.  Got it.  It makes it an extremely easy no for you.  Your position is not gospel.  Its an extremely easy yes for me, given our option to waive him as well if things don't work out with him.

If he isn't waived this all becomes moot anyway and just remains a matter of opinion.

If I had to take on another team's garbage, Edmonton is pretty low on the list of teams I'd choose. Honestly, It's a coin flip between him and a guy like Leivo for me. I don't think either will make a big impact in the league, but might be serviceable players... maybe. And, well, I like Leivo's salary better. And please don't assume I 'don't realize how much cap we're clearing come season's end', just because I disagree with your opinion.

All good except that Yak has actually been in the NHL and has that experience, ya know, since he was drafted.  Its his development that has stunk.

Talent wise he is way better than Leivo, don't kid yourself.  Your opinion aside, of course.