So, about Phil Kessel...

[TML fan]

I have to say, through all this talk about players with character issues, the board seems awfully quiet about Nazem Kadri...

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You know who I saw (and in person) floating around in the ice... Wendel Clark.

And Shayne Corson too - in fact he wouldn't even be skating in circles, he'd just stand there near the boards and wait.

Sort of off-topic but this made me think of it - I remember years ago either reading or watching something about Nik Lidstrom where it went on about how he purposely "coasted" or whatever at times in order to conserve energy.  His thinking was that there were times on the ice where you don't need to be going crazy expending energy uselessly so he would essentially pick his spots.

Not necessarily relevant, but it made me think of it.  I've never been able to find that again to re-read/watch it though.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I seem to recall another player much maligned for his defensive play and his +/- and known for scoring a lot of goals...

Barry Trotz concedes his assessment of Alex Ovechkin as a player and person is far different from what it was before he became his coach.

"I totally miscast him from afar," the Washington Capitals coach told USA TODAY Sports. "Perception is reality, and my perception was all off."

When Trotz was hired by the Capitals, he thought he was inheriting a rebellious player who would be difficult to coach. What he discovered was that he inherited a one-of-a-kind player who is fascinating to coach.

"I call him fearless," Trotz said. "He is not scared of any player in the league. He is not scared of having to play against top players. He is not scared of criticism. He is not scared of accountability. He is not scared of coaching. He is a stand-up guy. He shoulders more of everything than is imaginable. And he does a lot in the community."

...

He thinks Ovechkin's issues involved the normal maturing that many players experience and an inaccurate perception that he wasn't serious about winning.

"There was an assumption that he didn't care, and he does," Trotz said. "The one thing you can say about Ovi is if you ask him to do something, he does it."

Trotz said one reason why Ovechkin is viewed as difficult is that he is always honest to a fault.

"Ovi will tell you exactly what he thinks," Trotz said. "Other players will tell you what you want them to think."

Trotz says all you have to do is look at Ovechkin's numbers to know he is one of the league's most committed athletes. No one should average 47 goals in an era of shot-blocking and zealous defense.

"You don't get as good as he is without putting in the work," Trotz said. "You don't get as strong as he is without putting in the work."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2015/03/30/barry-trotz-alex-ovechkin-washington-capitals-nhl/70697664/

The risks of judging an athlete's "character" from afar.

 

[rdowdall]

You know who I saw (and in person) floating around in the ice... Wendel Clark.

And Shayne Corson too - in fact he wouldn't even be skating in circles, he'd just stand there near the boards and wait.

Sort of off-topic but this made me think of it - I remember years ago either reading or watching something about Nik Lidstrom where it went on about how he purposely "coasted" or whatever at times in order to conserve energy.  His thinking was that there were times on the ice where you don't need to be going crazy expending energy uselessly so he would essentially pick his spots.

Not necessarily relevant, but it made me think of it.  I've never been able to find that again to re-read/watch it though.

I remember Harry Neal and Bob Cole saying the same thing about Ray Bourque.  He conserved his energy and used it when he needed to.

You could maybe even apply this to Chara.  He doesn't look like he is always going at 110% all the time.  I think his deal is that he just knows how and when to lean on guys, and when he leans on you, you probably feel it.  You don't see him out there hitting everything that moves. 

I sometimes think that is a transition that Phanuef is trying to make.  I think he is trying to hit less, but become more of a "leaner".  These things sometimes take time when you are trying to change your style of game.  They don't happen overnight. 

 

[Al14]

I have to say, through all this talk about players with character issues, the board seems awfully quiet about Nazem Kadri...

It's difficult to attach character issues to someone named Nazem!  8)

The only real character issue I currently have with him is that he was a Habs fan growing up.    The fact that his father, also a Habs fan, refuses to wear a Leafs jersey on the Dad's trips says it all to me.   

I wonder which team Kessel worshiped growing up?  ???

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I seem to recall another player much maligned for his defensive play and his +/- and known for scoring a lot of goals...

Barry Trotz concedes his assessment of Alex Ovechkin as a player and person is far different from what it was before he became his coach.

"I totally miscast him from afar," the Washington Capitals coach told USA TODAY Sports. "Perception is reality, and my perception was all off."

When Trotz was hired by the Capitals, he thought he was inheriting a rebellious player who would be difficult to coach. What he discovered was that he inherited a one-of-a-kind player who is fascinating to coach.

"I call him fearless," Trotz said. "He is not scared of any player in the league. He is not scared of having to play against top players. He is not scared of criticism. He is not scared of accountability. He is not scared of coaching. He is a stand-up guy. He shoulders more of everything than is imaginable. And he does a lot in the community."

...

He thinks Ovechkin's issues involved the normal maturing that many players experience and an inaccurate perception that he wasn't serious about winning.

"There was an assumption that he didn't care, and he does," Trotz said. "The one thing you can say about Ovi is if you ask him to do something, he does it."

Trotz said one reason why Ovechkin is viewed as difficult is that he is always honest to a fault.

"Ovi will tell you exactly what he thinks," Trotz said. "Other players will tell you what you want them to think."

Trotz says all you have to do is look at Ovechkin's numbers to know he is one of the league's most committed athletes. No one should average 47 goals in an era of shot-blocking and zealous defense.

"You don't get as good as he is without putting in the work," Trotz said. "You don't get as strong as he is without putting in the work."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2015/03/30/barry-trotz-alex-ovechkin-washington-capitals-nhl/70697664/

The risks of judging an athlete's "character" from afar.

Meh, I still think you can pretty much never go wrong making harsh character judgments based on scant information and hearsay.

 

[rdowdall]

I seem to recall another player much maligned for his defensive play and his +/- and known for scoring a lot of goals...

Barry Trotz concedes his assessment of Alex Ovechkin as a player and person is far different from what it was before he became his coach.

"I totally miscast him from afar," the Washington Capitals coach told USA TODAY Sports. "Perception is reality, and my perception was all off."

When Trotz was hired by the Capitals, he thought he was inheriting a rebellious player who would be difficult to coach. What he discovered was that he inherited a one-of-a-kind player who is fascinating to coach.

"I call him fearless," Trotz said. "He is not scared of any player in the league. He is not scared of having to play against top players. He is not scared of criticism. He is not scared of accountability. He is not scared of coaching. He is a stand-up guy. He shoulders more of everything than is imaginable. And he does a lot in the community."

...

He thinks Ovechkin's issues involved the normal maturing that many players experience and an inaccurate perception that he wasn't serious about winning.

"There was an assumption that he didn't care, and he does," Trotz said. "The one thing you can say about Ovi is if you ask him to do something, he does it."

Trotz said one reason why Ovechkin is viewed as difficult is that he is always honest to a fault.

"Ovi will tell you exactly what he thinks," Trotz said. "Other players will tell you what you want them to think."

Trotz says all you have to do is look at Ovechkin's numbers to know he is one of the league's most committed athletes. No one should average 47 goals in an era of shot-blocking and zealous defense.

"You don't get as good as he is without putting in the work," Trotz said. "You don't get as strong as he is without putting in the work."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2015/03/30/barry-trotz-alex-ovechkin-washington-capitals-nhl/70697664/

The risks of judging an athlete's "character" from afar.

Meh, I still think you can pretty much never go wrong making harsh character judgments based on scant information and hearsay.

Agreed.  You should hear what I tell people about your character.

 

[rdowdall]

So there has been a lot of talk about character.  Here is an example of it:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152769425102686&fref=nf

Sorry it is a facebook link, I couldn't find another one. 

That's not to say that Phil Kessel doesn't do things like this, because I don't know if he does or not.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

:-\

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

:-\

Phil is not scouring the obituaries for potential PR opportunities, he's such a dick.

EDIT: Pretty nice move from Hamonic in all seriousness.

 

[Frank E]

:-\

Phil is not scouring the obituaries for potential PR opportunities, he's such a dick.

I thought he meant Phil Kessel may or may not murder fathers of young children...because I don't know if does or if he doesn't.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Phil Kessel gave a young kid from Regina, Saskatchewan a NHL career, what more does he have to do?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Phil Kessel gave a young kid from Regina, Saskatchewan a NHL career, what more does he have to do?

Nice.

 

[rdowdall]

:-\

Phil is not scouring the obituaries for potential PR opportunities, he's such a dick.

EDIT: Pretty nice move from Hamonic in all seriousness.

Yeah, I was just trying to tie it in to the Phil discussion, as I didn't know where else to post that link.  I wasn't really trying to indict Kessel, but show something that I think points to character. 

On the Leafs, I know of Lupul who does Lup's Troops, which is pretty cool. Other than that, you don't really hear of much that the Leafs do in the community. 

That's not to say that they don't do much, just that you don't hear about it much, at least not here in Ottawa, or on this board, which is where I get my Toronto centric information.

Again this is the sort of thing that can be double edged.  If it doesn't get reported people think you don't do it.  If it does get reported, people say it's a media grab. 

 

[Bullfrog]

Again this is the sort of thing that can be double edged.  If it doesn't get reported people think you don't do it.  If it does get reported, people say it's a media grab.

And in either case has almost nothing to do with their character as hockey players.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I was just trying to tie it in to the Phil discussion, as I didn't know where else to post that link.  I wasn't really trying to indict Kessel, but show something that I think points to character. 

On the Leafs, I know of Lupul who does Lup's Troops, which is pretty cool. Other than that, you don't really hear of much that the Leafs do in the community. 

That's not to say that they don't do much, just that you don't hear about it much, at least not here in Ottawa, or on this board, which is where I get my Toronto centric information.

Again this is the sort of thing that can be double edged.  If it doesn't get reported people think you don't do it.  If it does get reported, people say it's a media grab.

I think it's the kind of thing that maybe more accurately speaks to this idea of how this Leafs team is maybe a particularly unlikable group more so than "character" in how it relates to hockey. If you look at the King Clancy award, for instance, you'll see that just about as often as not it goes to a fairly mediocre hockey player.

Being a good, generous person is an admirable quality, sure, and one to be applauded but I don't think that's really what we mean when we talk about character and how it relates to actually winning hockey games. I use this example a lot but Michael Jordan basically seems like a deeply unpleasant, unlikable person but his deeply unlikable qualities sort of manifested themselves as being uniquely suited to sports. Hyper-competitiveness, a tendency to hold grudges for the tiniest of slights, an interest in embarrassing anyone who challenged him...bad qualities in a human being, ok ones in a Shooting Guard. There have been a lot of hockey players like that and I think an all-time team of players who've been described as jerks would hold their own against a team of sweethearts.

So "character" as it applies to sports, I think it's important to remember, really just means whatever someone wants it to mean in a given moment.

 

[cw]

So there has been a lot of talk about character.  Here is an example of it:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152769425102686&fref=nf

Sorry it is a facebook link, I couldn't find another one. 

That's not to say that Phil Kessel doesn't do things like this, because I don't know if he does or not.

He did some with kids who had cancer as he's a cancer survivor

 

[Al14]

So there has been a lot of talk about character.  Here is an example of it:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152769425102686&fref=nf

Sorry it is a facebook link, I couldn't find another one. 

That's not to say that Phil Kessel doesn't do things like this, because I don't know if he does or not.

He did some with kids who had cancer as he's a cancer survivor

We tend to forget that Kessel had to endure a cancer scare!

 

[Highlander]

He is a one ball man! Like Larry in the pickup truck and he is off to the rodeo.

 

[Al14]

He is a one ball man! Like Larry in the pickup truck and he is off to the rodeo.

I can't picture Kessel in a pickup truck, never mind riding a bull in a rodeo!  8)