Stay away from the UFA's! How do we improve?

[pnjunction]

I just don't know how we're going to take a step ahead next year???

Well when you consider where we are and all the underachieving play we've seen out of Connolly, Komi, Schenn, Lombardi, Armstrong, etc. I wonder if better coaching and few people stepping up would be enough to get us into the playoffs at least.  I have to think so, depending on the goaltending.

That is where Burke can start.  It's a tough spot too though because I think Gus still has potential but Reimer is under contract and coming into this season without a veteran netminder was clearly a disaster.  Do we sign Gus and try it again and with those guys a year older and more experienced?  Or let him walk and try to land a vet?  Tough call...

The other thing we have are some young guys that might be able to step up.  We're seeing it already in Gardiner and Frattin, those guys could be even better next year especially Frattin on the 2nd line (or the 3rd if somehow Kulie thaws out).  The challenge there is that Burke will need to make room somehow.  I don't know do you think he could put together 2 bad contract for one terrible contract?  Maybe the cap space would be the same but the player could be better suited to a role (ie big, we need size) and it would leave a roster spot open for a guy like Kadri?

 

[Erndog]

Well we are a young team, it's not entirely unreasonable to think there is a mild improvement from some of the younger guys.  Players in the system might take the next step.

On top of that, I think we might see some of the deadwood contracts shipped out this summer as Burke attempts to give Carlyle what he needs.  There is also the Carlyle factor, who is to say that under his tutelage, some guys are better than under Wilson and a more defensive system as a whole could give us more success.

We just don't know, there will be a lot of swaying one way and then the other before we get there.

I don't know how much of the "young team" thing I buy still though.

If you look at the teams top 6 forwards, I think they are who they are.  Kessel (24), Lupul (28), Grabbo (28), Connolly (30, although I guess he's played himself out of the top 6), Kulemin (24) and MacArthur (26).  Not old sure, but not necessarily rookies either.  I mean, Kessel has played 6 NHLs easons now!

I know Frattin, kadri and Colborne are all young and developing but I think we would all be ecstatic if any of them hit 40 points next year, let alone 2.

The Carlyle factor is fair.  I think the defence as a whole should be better.  They are a young group.

 

[Tigger]

Well we are a young team, it's not entirely unreasonable to think there is a mild improvement from some of the younger guys.  Players in the system might take the next step.

On top of that, I think we might see some of the deadwood contracts shipped out this summer as Burke attempts to give Carlyle what he needs.  There is also the Carlyle factor, who is to say that under his tutelage, some guys are better than under Wilson and a more defensive system as a whole could give us more success.

We just don't know, there will be a lot of swaying one way and then the other before we get there.

I don't know how much of the "young team" thing I buy still though.

If you look at the teams top 6 forwards, I think they are who they are.  Kessel (24), Lupul (28), Grabbo (28), Connolly (30, although I guess he's played himself out of the top 6), Kulemin (24) and MacArthur (26).  Not old sure, but not necessarily rookies either.  I mean, Kessel has played 6 NHLs easons now!

I know Frattin, kadri and Colborne are all young and developing but I think we would all be ecstatic if any of them hit 40 points next year, let alone 2.

The Carlyle factor is fair.  I think the defence as a whole should be better.  They are a young group.

Aren't they, by definition, the second youngest team in the NHL right now?

Young, for me, includes the general experience level, goalies in particular but they have it with the defencemen and forwards too.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Indeed, facts are facts, what can't talk, can't lie.

I'm not saying I think if we remain as is, we'll suddenly be a cup favorite next year, but I think it's reasonable to acknowledge the possibility of at least moderate improvement.

 

[lamajama]

I would imagine that we would be at minimum 10+ points ahead alone due to better goaltending that will come just from playing the non-keystone kops defensive structure in our own end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmpHvOzlxE&feature=related

 

[brothert]

Trade Kessel for a number 1 Center and start from there...
Some turnover of our really expensive but weak defense core...

I have to say I love to watch Kessel 1 v 1 on the ice but it's a small part of the game.  He reminds me alot of Pavel Bure, blazing speed, wicked shot but really a complementary player that makes a strong team stronger.  We need workhorse players with a bit of skill.

 

[princedpw]

Aren't they, by definition, the second youngest team in the NHL right now?

Discussing the average age of a team's players is, unfortunately, completely useless when trying to predict whether a team will improve or regress in the future.  Team A and Team B have the same average age:

Team A: Average Age:  26

All top 6 forwards, top 4 D, starting goalie are 19.
Bottom 6 forwards, bottom 2 D, backup goalie, 2 pressbox bodies are 33.

Team B: Average age:  26

All top 6 forwards, top 4 D, starting goalie are 33.
Bottom 6 forwards, bottom 2 D, backup goalie, 2 pressbox bodies are 19.

Given both teams have the same record this year, which team do you think will do better over the next 5 years?

 

[Tigger]

Wow, context matters?

 

[Bullfrog]

Trade Kessel for a number 1 Center and start from there...
Some turnover of our really expensive but weak defense core...

I have to say I love to watch Kessel 1 v 1 on the ice but it's a small part of the game.  He reminds me alot of Pavel Bure, blazing speed, wicked shot but really a complementary player that makes a strong team stronger.  We need workhorse players with a bit of skill.

Even if your concept of complementary players is right, you still need them. So if you trade Kessel away (no idea how a top 10 scoring winger is just complementary btw), now you don't have your complementary winger.

 

[Bender]

Trade Kessel for a number 1 Center and start from there...
Some turnover of our really expensive but weak defense core...

I have to say I love to watch Kessel 1 v 1 on the ice but it's a small part of the game.  He reminds me alot of Pavel Bure, blazing speed, wicked shot but really a complementary player that makes a strong team stronger.  We need workhorse players with a bit of skill.

Even if your concept of complementary players is right, you still need them. So if you trade Kessel away (no idea how a top 10 scoring winger is just complementary btw), now you don't have your complementary winger.

This is what I've been finding interesting lately. The statement that we're building around Kessel, I don't know how true that is. I think we've built a team for a 1C when we get them. Once we get our 1C then we'll be all set and the team will now be built around the center and not Kessel (although it is a bit presumptuous to say that Kessel and Lups will fit with the center).

 

[brothert]

Makes you wonder if we would have suffered so long had Burke managed to rope in the Sedins.  I think this was probably the biggest miss by Burke so far.  And Richards too but I get the feeling he never really wanted to come here.

 

[TML fan]

The only thing I care to see Burke do for next year is to make this team bigger and tougher. It's bad enough that they suck. It's even worse that they are such sissies.

 

[skrackle]

Some of this thread reminds me of an old Steve Martin routine: How to become rich. Step 1: Get a million dollars,
Step 2...

Let's face it. The Leafs probably aren't going to sign their future franchise players as UFAs, or trade for them. They also probably don't have those players in their system, whatever nice complimentary pieces they might have.

All that's left is to draft and develop those players, while keeping in mind that there are no guarantees. Maybe that franchise 1st line center ends up being drafted in the 4th round.

I'd like to see Carlyle continue to implement his defensive system. I'd also like Burke and his braintrust to concentrate on drafting and developing, even though Kessel, Grabovski, Lupul and whatever other bright spots the Leafs currently have will likely be long gone by the time the Leafs are ready to contend.

Gardiner looks like a keeper, though.

 

[Arn]

Not really an improvement, but I see George Parros is a UFA, would Burke/Carlyle make a move for him?

 

[Corn Flake]

Not really an improvement, but I see George Parros is a UFA, would Burke/Carlyle make a move for him?

I would be shocked if they didn't.

 

[Kin]

Not really an improvement, but I see George Parros is a UFA, would Burke/Carlyle make a move for him?

I mean, never say never but does he really add a ton that Orr didn't? They just buried Orr in the minors. If they really wanted a guy to play 5 minutes and fight they had one.

 

[Corn Flake]

Makes you wonder if we would have suffered so long had Burke managed to rope in the Sedins.  I think this was probably the biggest miss by Burke so far.  And Richards too but I get the feeling he never really wanted to come here.

I still believe that Burke was convinced he would/could get the Sedins, and it led to some of his more shorter-term thinking when he talked confidently about a quick rebuild.  The problem since then was the market for premium players has been incredibly slim at best. 

edit: but to clarify, you can't say he failed to rope them in.. he never got the chance to as they never made it to UFA.

I think he will come to the conclusion after this season that he won't have much choice but to pay a premium price for a premium player, whether through trade or UFA if he gets a shot at Parise or Suter.  I'm betting the CBA changes likely to come will help him... ie: cap on term of contracts.. probably 6 years.

I'm all for the more Flyer/Ranger way of thinking this off-season.  Happy to see development of prospects and being patient but at some point you have to use the assets or get off the pot.  Some of these kids need to either move to the NHL and be impactful players, or they need to package some off and bring in a big fish or two.  And IMO, having great players already on the team will make your kids better. Success rubs off.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Trade Kessel for a number 1 Center and start from there...
Some turnover of our really expensive but weak defense core...

I have to say I love to watch Kessel 1 v 1 on the ice but it's a small part of the game.  He reminds me alot of Pavel Bure, blazing speed, wicked shot but really a complementary player that makes a strong team stronger.  We need workhorse players with a bit of skill.

There would have to be more value coming back than just a #1 centre for Kessel since Burke traded away 2 1sts for Kessel.  Burke has already identified Kessel as being part of the core of the team, so I really do not see Burke trading Kessel away. 

However, this being the Toronto Maple Leafs, there is nothing to stop them from reversing their thinking and trading away Kessel and a lot of the other younger guys for old geezers who may have 1 or 2 seasons left in their career. 

 

[Arn]

Not really an improvement, but I see George Parros is a UFA, would Burke/Carlyle make a move for him?

I mean, never say never but does he really add a ton that Orr didn't? They just buried Orr in the minors. If they really wanted a guy to play 5 minutes and fight they had one.

But was Orr not broken? Has he played much or fought since he went down to the AHL? I could see us go for Parros and Thornton. With Brown that could be a pretty truculent fourth line at a cap hit of under $3m... Not that I'm saying I'd go for that myself though I do kind of like Thornton.

 

[Mike1]

If Carlyle is going to implement a defensive system, than one of the most important tasks is improving the team upfront so we are able to produce offense inspite of playing more defensive hockey.

Guys like Gaustad & Thornton arent going to make this team better & honestly are the kind of players that the Leafs have overvalued & made mistakes on in the past. Who is too say that they are not the next Armstrong & Orr?