The Brian Burke Thread

[Kin]

It's never ceases to amaze me how this stuff always comes up when the team is going through a funk, and hardly ever when the team is winning games. I can almost guarantee the fact that if the Leafs had won 3 or 4 more games this season, and were still sitting in 8th, Burke doesn't get this kind of treatment in the media. But if the team makes the playoffs and get smoked out in 4 straight they'll request his head on a platter then too.

So they base their opinions on Burke based on the performance of the team? What a ravenous bunch of blood crazed monsters!

I really cant blame him for losing it with some of these media guys. Were starting to see that the media in this market have no plans to hold tight for any sort of lengthy rebuild. Patience is not part of the language when we're talking hockey in Toronto.

It's really too bad, because I'm sick and tired of the old approach of shipping out rising stars for old ones, who the media love, and who only want to finish out their careers as Leafs for the novelty of it.

I'm sorry but anyone showing little patience for the flawed, failed hybrid approach Burke has taken shows that they wouldn't like it if he'd taken the approach they actually advocate? That's nonsense.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

I can't even imagine what the media would be like if Burke took the traditional approach to a rebuild and the team finished last place for 5 straight years. I suppose he'd burned at the stake in front of city hall by now.

I'm sorry but it was Burke who proclaimed he ain't interested in a 5 year rebuild. If in year 4 (I guess technically his full 3rd year) of his re-tool he is delivering another non-play off team that's currently in 12th spot then I don't think its unfair for the media to get on his back a little.

 

[lamajama]

I can't even imagine what the media would be like if Burke took the traditional approach to a rebuild and the team finished last place for 5 straight years. I suppose he'd burned at the stake in front of city hall by now.

I'm sorry but it was Burke who proclaimed he ain't interested in a 5 year rebuild. If in year 4 (I guess technically his full 3rd year) of his re-tool he is delivering another non-play off team that's currently in 12th spot then I don't think its unfair for the media to get on his back a little.

Oh Thank you! That was my immediate thought. I try to support BB (never liked his "re-tool" idea at all but the performance of Phil has eased my previous WTH thoughts but after 4 years to essentially be right where
we were (not in playoffs - no speaking about prospects etc) before he got here should mean he's on the red-hot seat. Face it. He's failing and his bombastic BS is showing for what it truly is.

 

[Madferret]

Burkes either doing one of two things here - taking the heat off Carlyle / the players or - he's losing his mind. Whatever the case its kind of ironic that the biggest name player on the Leafs is now Brian Burke...

 

[Redleaf]

It's never ceases to amaze me how this stuff always comes up when the team is going through a funk, and hardly ever when the team is winning games. I can almost guarantee the fact that if the Leafs had won 3 or 4 more games this season, and were still sitting in 8th, Burke doesn't get this kind of treatment in the media. But if the team makes the playoffs and get smoked out in 4 straight they'll request his head on a platter then too.

So they base their opinions on Burke based on the performance of the team? What a ravenous bunch of blood crazed monsters!

I really cant blame him for losing it with some of these media guys. Were starting to see that the media in this market have no plans to hold tight for any sort of lengthy rebuild. Patience is not part of the language when we're talking hockey in Toronto.

It's really too bad, because I'm sick and tired of the old approach of shipping out rising stars for old ones, who the media love, and who only want to finish out their careers as Leafs for the novelty of it.

I'm sorry but anyone showing little patience for the flawed, failed hybrid approach Burke has taken shows that they wouldn't like it if he'd taken the approach they actually advocate? That's nonsense.

Thanks once again for your timely and thought provoking responses. We've already established that everyone has a different view on how long it should take to build a team the right way. But thanks for keeping up the fight.

 

[Zee]

It's never ceases to amaze me how this stuff always comes up when the team is going through a funk, and hardly ever when the team is winning games. I can almost guarantee the fact that if the Leafs had won 3 or 4 more games this season, and were still sitting in 8th, Burke doesn't get this kind of treatment in the media. But if the team makes the playoffs and get smoked out in 4 straight they'll request his head on a platter then too.

"Going through a funk"? Shouldn't the media analyze the team at the end of the season and see if they've made the playoffs?  You toss out "if the Leafs had 3 or 4 more wins" as if it's nothing. Hell if they had 3 or 4 more last year they would have almost made the playoffs too, the fact is they didn't.  That is failure pure and simple. Burke himself a few weeks ago said he expected the Leafs to make the playoffs this season.

 

[pnjunction]

Not only that but Burke was basically betting on playoffs in the first year after that horrendous trade...year 3 and looks like we're out. Now I have hope for next year but it's a fair question whether MLSE is losing confidence.

 

[Kin]

We've already established that everyone has a different view on how long it should take to build a team the right way. But thanks for keeping up the fight.

But Burke is the guy who said, while taking over, that he didn't want a five year rebuild. He's the one who chose the path. You don't get to sign up for AP physics, get a bad grade and then whine about how the kids in remedial have it easier.

 

[Redleaf]

Not only that but Burke was basically betting on playoffs in the first year after that horrendous trade...year 3 and looks like we're out. Now I have hope for next year but it's a fair question whether MLSE is losing confidence.

If MLSE is losing confidence in Burke at this stage of the process than they're even jumpier than the media.

 

[princedpw]

Are the complaints about Burke primarily about the kessel trade?  I agree that it hasn't turned out well, but I don't see the leafs being that much (if any) better this year if they hadn't made that trade. They'd have seguin instead of kessel and they would have some other promising players in junior or the minors who wouldnt help them this year.  Of course it is impossible to say exactly what would have happened but either burke's way or another way, it is a long time to build back to the top when there is a cap and you can't just go out and buy a whole bunch of players. 

If the leafs had gone the complete burn-it-down way, they would have competed with Edmonton and Columbus over the last few years for the #1-3 overall picks. They'd have a guy like seguin and perhaps a guy like the nuge, if they were lucky and out-bottomed Edmonton -- if they were unlucky and only finished 3rd last in the nuge or seguin years they'd have some non-superstar-level players and may be worse off than they are now. Either way, they'd still have to fill out 20 other roster spots effectively.  Like Edmonton they'd still likely be way out of the playoffs this year.

The basic point is we'd still be waiting for a good team.

 

[Kin]

Are the complaints about Burke primarily about the kessel trade?

cw's written well about it but it's more about the approach as a whole than it is any one particular trade. The Kessel trade is the most glaring example of how Burke chose to continue to the whole "build while competing" philosophy rather than a real tear-down but it's not the only example. As a result, the issue is more about how the team looks going forward than it is about anything that happened in the past.

 

[Redleaf]

We've already established that everyone has a different view on how long it should take to build a team the right way. But thanks for keeping up the fight.

But Burke is the guy who said, while taking over, that he didn't want a five year rebuild. He's the one who chose the path. You don't get to sign up for AP physics, get a bad grade and then whine about how the kids in remedial have it easier.

Burke's mistake was to publicly announce a time frame for a successful rebuild, I agree. The fact it hasn't happened as quickly as predicted hardly means it's not working out at all. I've seen enough of an indication that, to me the process is heading in the right direction. But I know there's fans that don't agree with that assessment, and that's fine too.

 

[pnjunction]

Burke flat out saying it (like a blustering idiot) just made it harder to deny that the plan was to be competitive in a short time. It would still be evident in his actions.  When you give up half a farm for one guy that will only be relatively cheap for 5 years you should see some success in that time. At the end of five years if Kessel isn't completely sick of things here we'll have to pay dearly to keep him on our loser team just like Grabovski.

 

[Zee]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

 

[L K]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

1) He plays in the division that has consistently been the worst in the NHL
2) The Panthers were so far below the cap that they needed to buy a roster
3) They didn't add elite players, they added a bunch of 2nd/3rd liners and paid them like 1st/2nd liners
4) They are tied for the 16th best record in the NHL, hardly a ringing endorsement of what you can accomplish with free agency team building.

 

[Zee]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

They took chances on a bunch of guys and managed to get career years out of them.  Also they traded for Versteeg who is their top scorer right now.  Is it a team built for long term success?  They may be crappy again next season for all we know.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

Is it a team built for long term success? 

Is ours? We may be 13th in the conference by the end of tonight.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

1) He plays in the division that has consistently been the worst in the NHL
2) The Panthers were so far below the cap that they needed to buy a roster
3) They didn't add elite players, they added a bunch of 2nd/3rd liners and paid them like 1st/2nd liners
4) They are tied for the 16th best record in the NHL, hardly a ringing endorsement of what you can accomplish with free agency team building.

They're barely leading the consensus worst division in hockey (some analysts say worst division ever) and are doing it on the back of a whole lot of OT/SO points (sometimes people here call it the 'loser' point, but I don't).

Florida and Toronto both have 27 ROW, and our GF/GA differential is -8 to their -21.  But apparently that means we suck and they're some shining light because they've managed to lose in OT/SO more than we have.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

The sad thing is, looking at the current free agent list, it seems it's harder and harder to be able to just sign big name free agents in the summer to plug holes.  Gone are the days when the Leafs could go out and sign Cujo and Roberts and ice a competitive team with an all star goalie.  Teams are locking up their own assets to long terms and you have to build from within or through trades.  I don't see how Burke can improve upon this bunch in the summer.

Then how was Dave Talon able to do it in Florida in 1 year?

1) He plays in the division that has consistently been the worst in the NHL
2) The Panthers were so far below the cap that they needed to buy a roster
3) They didn't add elite players, they added a bunch of 2nd/3rd liners and paid them like 1st/2nd liners
4) They are tied for the 16th best record in the NHL, hardly a ringing endorsement of what you can accomplish with free agency team building.

They're barely leading the consensus worst division in hockey (some analysts say worst division ever) and are doing it on the back of a whole lot of OT/SO points (sometimes people here call it the 'loser' point, but I don't).

Florida and Toronto both have 27 ROW, and our GF/GA differential is -8 to their -21.  But apparently that means we suck and they're some shining light because they've managed to lose in OT/SO more than we have.

I don't think they are some shining light in anything. But in their first year of rebuild under Talon they have a great chance of making the play offs. Leafs in first year of rebuild by Burke finished cool 29th.