The Brian Burke Thread

[OldTimeHockey]

But I don't get the knock on the Teachers Pension Fund. They spent to max in terms of cap, management team, coaching and GM so if they were only concerned about their investment, wouldn't they have cheaped out on some/all of those things?

Bingo, the argument that the teachers union wanted the Leafs to lose, or didn't care if they won is false.
They spent the cash(were always top 3 or 4 in the league before the cap), they just did a really sh*tty job of hiring.

 

[L K]

People seemed to want them to buy out everyone and just outright overspend beyond the rules of the league.  I never understood it.

 

[Kin]

They spent the cash(were always top 3 or 4 in the league before the cap), they just did a really sh*tty job of hiring.

Well, just straight away, that just flat out isn't true. In the last year without a cap the Leafs payroll ranked 6th.  The Leafs were outspent by the Rangers, Red Wings, Flyers, Avalanche and Stars. The year before? 6th. This time behind the same teams minus the Avs and replaced by the Blues. The year before that? 6th.

And it's not like it's by an insignificant amount either. Over that three year period the Leafs were outspent by as much as 20% as some of the other teams. At a glimpse it looks like they spent less on payroll than did the St. Louis Blues. The argument was always that the Maple Leafs revenues didn't really translate into payroll. Do you think the Blues took in more money in those years?

Then came the lockout and with it a CBA that would be very profitable for the Leafs but that would also take away the team's biggest competitive advantage and...they voted for it.

But not to worry, like you guys say, they never skimped out on their Hires at least. They always hired top guys to...no? They hired a first timer with no track record of success from an organization that had never won a Stanley Cup? They refused, apparently, to hire someone who would engage in the sort of full-scale rebuilding process that the team desperately needed in favor of a guy who would "build while competing" or, as we know it now, set fire to the franchise.

But not to worry, they fired him. Then they did go out and spend money on a GM absolutely. Who came in and...didn't want to follow that stupid Pittsburgh plan. Read the Brian Burke thread. See how many people defend his initial failures by saying that the Board wouldn't let their GM's knock things down and build anew.

The idea that spending to the cap, even when it's ill-advised, is a sign of wanting to win is nonsense. The same goes with running a downtrodden Hockey Executive employment program in the front office. Post-lockout the team has refused to rebuild, favouring ill-advised spending.

So the idea that the team under the OTPP didn't really care about winning? It can be boiled down to a couple of fairly inarguable points:

1. Despite being the highest grossing team in the NHL, was never in the top 5 of payroll pre-lockout.
2. Voted for a CBA that kneecapped them competitively
3. Did not exclusively hire high-priced front office talent with a proven track record
4. Seem deadset opposed to rebuilding a team properly.

 

[caver]

This article is another example of the media generating news. Go ask an "expert" what he thinks about the Leafs management and write the opinions as if they were fact. Tabloid filler.

 

[bustaheims]

This article is another example of the media generating news. Go ask an "expert" what he thinks about the Leafs management and write the opinions as if they were fact. Tabloid filler.

Yeah, that was my impression, as well. Nothing in that article comes from anyone with any meaningful connection to Rogers, Bell or MLSE.

 

[Kin]

This article is another example of the media generating news. Go ask an "expert" what he thinks about the Leafs management and write the opinions as if they were fact. Tabloid filler.

Sorry, the assistant dean of the B-school at U of T really needs quotation marks around expert when it comes to a matter of business?

This is a piece that will accompany a larger story for context. It's getting perspective from someone who has distance but expertise. Nothing is presented as anything other than opinion.

 

[Bender]

Based on his team's win/loss record and the fact that he was hired by the outgoing ownership group I'm guardedly optimistic that Brian Burke will soon be given the opportunity to take his considerable talents elsewhere.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1234299--mlse-sale-wins-expected-to-matter-under-new-rogers-bell-regime

Some quotations of interest...(from the above article)...

?Winning teams increase viewership. That?s what drives their bottom line.?

?Under the Teachers? pension plan, this was an investment to generate resources to pay their pension,? said O?Reilly. ?Now you have a syndicate of owners all that have vested interest in the teams being more successful.?

?I don?t know if it?s realistic for the Raptors to make the playoffs, but their performance is going to have to improve,? said Powers. ?The deal bought Burke another year. If they (the Leafs) don?t make the playoffs this year, you know his head?s going to go.?

Powers believes the new board of MLSE, which will feature representatives from Rogers and Bell replacing those who represented the pension fund, will focus the organization on winning.

?This is all about content,? said Powers. ?Winning content is better than losing content.?

No surprise that both Bell and Rogers will come in and will want their respective teams to facilitate a winning formula for success.  Different owners, different attitude, indeed.

I really dont understand how being under the TPP and Rogers mean that one doesnt xare to win and one only wants to win. The team is there to make money and winning is a by product of this. If the TPP Leafs really wanted to fail then why spend to the cap?

I cant believe those people are paid for quotes like that. Ive read far more insightful and nuanced comments on these boards, and none were paid for it.

 

[Kin]

I really dont understand how being under the TPP and Rogers mean that one doesnt xare to win and one only wants to win. The team is there to make money and winning is a by product of this. If the TPP Leafs really wanted to fail then why spend to the cap?

There's a significant gap between not caring about winning and wanting to fail.

 

[Zee]

Secretly I think Burke is hoping for a lockout as it takes care of a few problems for him without having to do anything.  Namely the contracts of Connolly, Lombardi come off the books and Komisarek would have 1 year left which would make it easier to trade him since he'd be a UFA after 2013/2014 season.  Also Burke has no need to get a goalie until the following season.  Problems solve themselves!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Based on how they allocated the draft picks last time, and assuming they did the same again, wouldn't we have the best shot at 1st overall?  I know Pittsburgh would get it, but at least on paper I think we'd have the best odds.

 

[maplesyrup]

Not sure, but you know we'd draft 2nd overall. [insert giant exploding Burke buffalo head here] 

 

[Highlander]

I don't know how to start a new thread, but I wanted to make this comment. The NHL owners and players are again playing their game of greed and we the fans suffer. I think we should gather as many names as we can and start a movement that says  if you lock out this coming season, then forget the next season as we are handing in our season tickets, we are cutting off our hockey channels, we will not view hockey night in Canada or any NHL game for the following season, as we Fans can have their own strike, if they don't need us, we don't need them. Perhaps we can watch our children play on outdoor rinks again, or support our college and high school and junior teams, and forget about the greed gophers on both sides of the equation. Its all big money and its time to tell the Owners and Players to stuff it.  If you remember back to the 60's all the players had summer jobs to supplement their playing income. Now the lowest paid hockey player makes more than the CEO of most companies. Where is the sense in all of this?  Why does a boy from Harvest Town, Saskatchewan, have to stay in a 5 star resort in each city they play in? Do you know in Ottawa their is a very good Sheraton Hotel affixed to the hockey rink but the players are bused to the Chateau Laurier, downtown, it just doesnt make any sense.  But it should for us hardworking stiffs whom pay hard earned dollars for NHL hats, jerseys, tickets etc etc.  Lets start a movement to tell the NHL and the Players where we stand on this issue. Lets tell them if they don't work this out and play, forget about us for the 13-14 season, as we are just not that interested....please send this comment on to anyone and everyone in an effort to get these overpaid players and greedy owners to work it out.....our we will make them suffer.

 

[caver]

OK... I'll get the torches and somebody else get the pitchforks.  ;D

 

[OldTimeHockey]

As far as I know, there is no Sheraton 'affixed' to the Scotiabank.

 

[Highlander]

Funny Caveman, and there is a Sheraton near the building not a 30 minute bus trip downtown. What the hell does someone at age 22 now about 5 star hotels?  Give me a frikken break.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What does their age have to do with it?  I'm sure they know as much about a 5 star hotel as any other person who has been in one a similar amount of time, whether they are 22 or 42.

They are paid handsomely to stay in year-round shape, go on the ice, risk injury, get publicly scrutinized for it, and provide entertainment.  Lots of people in lots of professions get paid huge sums of money.  If they work their butts off on the ice, at the end of the night I'm not too concerned if their reward is a nice hotel.  They spend a good majority of the season flying all over North America, spending many nights or weeks away from their wives/children/families.

Don't support them if you can't stand it of course, but I don't see the big problem.

 

[Kin]

I don't know how to start a new thread, but I wanted to make this comment. The NHL owners and players are again playing their game of greed and we the fans suffer. I think we should gather as many names as we can and start a movement that says  if you lock out this coming season, then forget the next season as we are handing in our season tickets, we are cutting off our hockey channels, we will not view hockey night in Canada or any NHL game for the following season, as we Fans can have their own strike, if they don't need us, we don't need them. Perhaps we can watch our children play on outdoor rinks again, or support our college and high school and junior teams, and forget about the greed gophers on both sides of the equation. Its all big money and its time to tell the Owners and Players to stuff it.  If you remember back to the 60's all the players had summer jobs to supplement their playing income. Now the lowest paid hockey player makes more than the CEO of most companies. Where is the sense in all of this?  Why does a boy from Harvest Town, Saskatchewan, have to stay in a 5 star resort in each city they play in? Do you know in Ottawa their is a very good Sheraton Hotel affixed to the hockey rink but the players are bused to the Chateau Laurier, downtown, it just doesnt make any sense.  But it should for us hardworking stiffs whom pay hard earned dollars for NHL hats, jerseys, tickets etc etc.  Lets start a movement to tell the NHL and the Players where we stand on this issue. Lets tell them if they don't work this out and play, forget about us for the 13-14 season, as we are just not that interested....please send this comment on to anyone and everyone in an effort to get these overpaid players and greedy owners to work it out.....our we will make them suffer.

Dare I say it...internet petition?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Funny Caveman, and there is a Sheraton near the building not a 30 minute bus trip downtown. What the hell does someone at age 22 now about 5 star hotels?  Give me a frikken break.

The nearest Sheraton is 14.2 miles away.

Actually, according to Google maps, the nearest Sheraton is downtown Ottawa. But that doesn't matter?

Why shouldn't the players get to stay in a nice hotel. Their bodies need rest. Comfort doesn't really go hand in hand with the Comfort Inn.

 

[Highlander]

Listen, I travel for a living and if you have stayed at the Chateau in Ottawa you would realize that the Sheraton is a much nicer room and further away from the night life. What I am saying is most people do not accumulate wealth until their 40's and then stay at the nicer properties.  I do agree with you as one who lives on the road constantly for his work that a nicer hotel is great.
Those of you who do not remember Bobby Baun playing with a broken ankle for peanuts because he loved the sport and when season was finished sold cars or insurance to supplement the meager salaries they used to be paid.
Don't any of you feel pissed off and taken or do you all blame the owners and this is there fault. Listen players are mollycoddled and spoon fed like babies these days and have pensions where they never have to work again or worry about the bills that all of us struggle to make. We are all like druggies for he NHL and hockey is our Fix and the Leafs are our God...
To tell you the truth I no longer watch NBA cause I just don't care to watch it and the NHL can't stand another road accident which will happen with this lockout.....so why do you let yourself suffer....make them suffer

 

[Highlander]

If there is not one there now there was a few years back...but U are missing the point and hotels are just a small part of it...if you could look at the small details of the players agreements you would be astounded at the hundreds of small perks they are afforded..but enough about this...the core issue....is why will you suffer for the greed of owners and players.....we live and breath for our Leafs and the game....but the thing is they don't give a flying rats ass about you or me or any of us.....I say F____em...let them suffer....if they do not play this year...withdraw your support for 13-14 season, simple, if you can live one more year without them.....let them live another year without us.