The Leafs Management vs NHL

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Part I: Brendan Shanahan Gets "Puck Possessed"
Part II: Reversing the Curse
Part III: Shanny Listens to his Leaf Gut
Part IV: to be published
Part V: to be published

This is a series of analyses from the guy that wrote the Timashov article on our Management team's influences over their careers (specifically Shanahan) and how it has changed the direction of the Toronto Maple Leafs from the past 40+ years.

It's not my favourite writing style, but the point is clear and really fun to read about.

I read part 1 and 2 fairly recently and his writing style is atrocious. I like the content though, just not how he presents it.

 

[herman]

I read part 1 and 2 fairly recently and his writing style is atrocious. I like the content though, just not how he presents it.

Writing style I can easily ignore. The content, the research, and the positioning of the facts is what I enjoyed.  I didn't get into hockey seriously until 2000, so I missed out on things like the Russian 5, but the quotes about Scotty Bowman's observations resonated with what I saw in the league back then.

I really dug this Brendan Shanahan quote as well:

When there's only one potato left on the plate, my fork's already in it.

Not mentioned so far was how heavily Shanahan pursued Nylander at the 2014 draft. Mirtle had an article about that shortly following the draft.

[Shanahan] became particularly useful given slick Swedish forward William Nylander was one of the scouting staff?s top targets at eighth overall.

Shanahan and Nylander p?re played the 2006-07 season together on the New York Rangers, are of a similar age and get along very well, meaning the Leafs had some unique insight into their potential pick?s background and upbringing.

By the time the draft weekend came around, Shanahan felt he had such a good grasp on William Nylander?s personality and promise that he found the fact some were questioning his character in the lead-up to Friday humorous.

More importantly, those scouting reports were potentially beneficial to the Leafs, who wanted him to slip to their pick.

?I knew it wasn?t true,? Shanahan said. ?I did a lot of homework on him.

?I called players that I played with in Detroit that had played with William over in Sweden. ? To be honest with you, I did it a while ago.

?Everybody I talked to, people whose opinions I really respect, guys who are in dressing rooms, couldn?t say enough about the kid.?

 

[herman]

Part I: Brendan Shanahan Gets "Puck Possessed"
Part II: Reversing the Curse
Part III: Shanny Listens to his Leaf Gut
Part IV: Nylander, Kapanen and Shanny?s Fancy Foreign Friends
Part V: Shanahan and Soshnikov - the Kid Who's Scared of Nothing

Updated the list with the new stuff.

Does the author have a string board centered around Shanahan?

Anyway, he continues to highlight the Leafs' strong shift towards mining skill from grounds overlooked due to deep-seeded North American hockey culture and old metagame trends.

 

[herman]

Lou sits down to chat with Jonas.
http://www.tsn.ca/lamoriello-on-babcock-the-trade-deadline-and-nylander-s-health-1.423140
A lot is written, but nothing is really said.

TSN.ca: I know you won?t get into specifics, but when you?re investing long-term in a young player - you?ve got two prominent ones obviously in Morgan Rielly and Nazem Kadri - how do you determine whether you want to be committed long-term to a young player who maybe hasn?t reached his potential yet?

Lamoriello: Well, first of all, that?s really a constant, collective decision. Those are organizational decisions. All of us, Brendan, myself and Mike and Kyle [Dubas] and Mark Hunter and Brandon [Pridham], all have input into these type of thought processes and then you have to make the final decision. But it?s not something you just do without having everybody?s knowledge and input because these are organizational decisions that have to be made not only for today but for tomorrow. It?s a process and you come to that decision and you do the homework and research on whatever decision it is that you?re going to do and you never look back, whether it works out or not. You never feel as though you made a mistake because if you do the right homework it just didn?t work out.

TSN.ca: We?re about six weeks from the trade deadline. Have you begun formulating a plan for that point?

Lamoriello: Well I think you always have a plan and it changes every day (laughs). I?ve always said you have a five-year plan in instructing or with your hockey team and during the season you have a plan that every day there?s something that happens that makes it different. Whether it?s an injury, whatever it might be.

TSN.ca: Is it fair to suggest you?ll be a seller or do you not make that determination yet?

Lamoriello: How well do you know me, Jonas?

Edit: forgot the link!

 

[Bender]

Lou sits down to chat with Jonas.
A lot is written, but nothing is really said.

TSN.ca: I know you won?t get into specifics, but when you?re investing long-term in a young player - you?ve got two prominent ones obviously in Morgan Rielly and Nazem Kadri - how do you determine whether you want to be committed long-term to a young player who maybe hasn?t reached his potential yet?

Lamoriello: Well, first of all, that?s really a constant, collective decision. Those are organizational decisions. All of us, Brendan, myself and Mike and Kyle [Dubas] and Mark Hunter and Brandon [Pridham], all have input into these type of thought processes and then you have to make the final decision. But it?s not something you just do without having everybody?s knowledge and input because these are organizational decisions that have to be made not only for today but for tomorrow. It?s a process and you come to that decision and you do the homework and research on whatever decision it is that you?re going to do and you never look back, whether it works out or not. You never feel as though you made a mistake because if you do the right homework it just didn?t work out.

TSN.ca: We?re about six weeks from the trade deadline. Have you begun formulating a plan for that point?

Lamoriello: Well I think you always have a plan and it changes every day (laughs). I?ve always said you have a five-year plan in instructing or with your hockey team and during the season you have a plan that every day there?s something that happens that makes it different. Whether it?s an injury, whatever it might be.

TSN.ca: Is it fair to suggest you?ll be a seller or do you not make that determination yet?

Lamoriello: How well do you know me, Jonas?

Hahahaha I love the last line.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Hahahaha I love the last line.

It finished great too:

TSN.ca: I?ll conclude with this. We?re 41 games into the year, you?ve been constantly evaluating players, learning about the roster. Do you have an idea yet of how many long-term building blocks you have with this group?

Lamoriello: I?d like to think that we have an idea.

TSN.ca: How do you go about that process? What...

Lamoriello: Like I said, I?d like to think we have an idea.

http://www.tsn.ca/lamoriello-on-babcock-the-trade-deadline-and-nylander-s-health-1.423140

 

[herman]

That last part was so Johnny Tightlips.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIGUu0bvpMQ[/youtube]

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

We all joke around about him, but he had several great lines in that interview. Being in Jersey for that long definitely rubbed off on him, some of those lines could have been delivered outside Satriale's. ;D

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We all joke around about him, but he had several great lines in that interview. Being in Jersey for that long definitely rubbed off on him, some of those lines could have been delivered outside Satriale's. ;D

I'm guessing Jonas Siegel will never be seen or heard from again.

 

[herman]

6 months in so far and Lou has been as advertised.

There are no more questions about the managerial stability, or how young and untested Dubas and Hunter and Shanahan are. Not to say there haven't been missteps (Lou's laws), but they are not exactly distractions, nor are they hindrances at this stage.

It sounds like he's not making executive decisions in a vacuum (i.e. we don't lose Dubas', Hunter's, and Pridham's expertise). He can't fire the coach, either. The trade deadline, and the offseason moves will bring more information to bear, but so far, I'm pretty okay with Lou keeping the seat warm for Dubas. While I believe Dubas could've done all of this in lieu of Lou, he wouldn't have been able to set up what he has on the Marlies and the Solar Bears.

 

[rdowdall]

6 months in so far and Lou has been as advertised.

There are no more questions about the managerial stability, or how young and untested Dubas and Hunter and Shanahan are. Not to say there haven't been missteps (Lou's laws), but they are not exactly distractions, nor are they hindrances at this stage.

It sounds like he's not making executive decisions in a vacuum (i.e. we don't lose Dubas', Hunter's, and Pridham's expertise). He can't fire the coach, either. The trade deadline, and the offseason moves will bring more information to bear, but so far, I'm pretty okay with Lou keeping the seat warm for Dubas. While I believe Dubas could've done all of this in lieu of Lou, he wouldn't have been able to set up what he has on the Marlies and the Solar Bears.

Now I want to read a book called "In lieu of Lou".

 

[herman]

Now I want to read a book called "In lieu of Lou".

That's what the SBN blog In Lou We Trust should've renamed to.

 

[Kin]

There are no more questions about the managerial stability, or how young and untested Dubas and Hunter and Shanahan are. Not to say there haven't been missteps (Lou's laws), but they are not exactly distractions, nor are they hindrances at this stage.

Nobody serious was asking those questions and there's really not much to be said for those policies not being hindrances before any serious period of player acquisition has been gone through.

You are awarding some high marks for clearing a low bar.

 

[herman]

There are no more questions about the managerial stability, or how young and untested Dubas and Hunter and Shanahan are. Not to say there haven't been missteps (Lou's laws), but they are not exactly distractions, nor are they hindrances at this stage.

Nobody serious was asking those questions and there's really not much to be said for those policies not being hindrances before any serious period of player acquisition has been gone through.

You are awarding some high marks for clearing a low bar.

You are correct. There hasn't really been any all-out GMing action for the Leafs this year.

The bar has been quite low since before the 2004 lockout, so please forgive me for my optimism.

 

[Highlander]

Herman you have the right to be optimistic, as am I.  Lou is only keeping the chair warm for Dubas and acting as further mentor.

 

[Kin]

The bar has been quite low since before the 2004 lockout, so please forgive me for my optimism.

Optimism's fine but, dude, look through the thread. You're fine with Lou in the position now, you were fine with it then. So we're certainly not basing this on new information.

"As advertised" Lamoriello was going to do things Hunter/Dubas couldn't. And he still might. That said., I look at the last few months and feel pretty confident saying that there's nothing Dubas/Hunter/Shanahan couldn't have accomplished absent those missteps.

 

[Frank E]

The bar has been quite low since before the 2004 lockout, so please forgive me for my optimism.

Optimism's fine but, dude, look through the thread. You're fine with Lou in the position now, you were fine with it then. So we're certainly not basing this on new information.

"As advertised" Lamoriello was going to do things Hunter/Dubas couldn't. And he still might. That said., I look at the last few months and feel pretty confident saying that there's nothing Dubas/Hunter/Shanahan couldn't have accomplished absent those missteps.

Teaching them how to be a little more tight-lipped with the media? 

I get the feeling that some people think that the GM is just on the phone all day long trying to make hockey trade deals to improve his talent base. 

If you're suggesting that Lou has done what Dubas could, then what are those things that Lou has done?

 

[Kin]

Teaching them how to be a little more tight-lipped with the media? 

We may be reading different hockey message boards but Dubas/Hunter/Shanahan being so out front and engaging was something most people here seemed to really like.

If you're suggesting that Lou has done what Dubas could, then what are those things that Lou has done?

There's a chance you're missing the sarcasm there.

 

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/05/04/recapping-24-months-of-brendan-shanahan/

Back on May 8th, 2014 ? almost two years ago to this day ? the Maple Leafs, lead by Brendan Shanahan and Dave Nonis, signed Randy Carlyle to a two-year extension with an option for a third year. Leafs fans were sick and tired of a team that was poorly structured, lacked effort, and had a penchant for finding new ways to collapse epically, whether it be it from playoff positions or in a playoff game. Fans saw that ? despite a poorly constructed core ? Randy Carlyle was a primary reason for the Leafs? frequently embarrassing play. The contract extension of Carlyle sent the fanbase into an uproar, and his final season played out just as everyone expected.

Looking back, was it evil genius on the part of Brendan Shanahan? Did he see two and three steps ahead in paying a coach(es) to be the sacrificial lamb for a grander plan he was devising? If, on May 8th of 2014, you had a crystal ball and told a panicking Leafs fan that Shanahan was going to pull off the following over the course of the next two calendar years:

* Start his first draft by picking the most skilled player, foregoing a tantalizing 6?3, 225 power forward, with their eighth overall pick.
* Hire one of the best and hardest working scouts in the game in the fall in Mark Hunter to head up his amateur scouting operation.
* Let Carlyle coach the team as it predictably tailspun out of control, fire him, and let a powerless assistant coach help steer the team into the draft lottery.
* Actually trade the iron-clad contract of David Clarkson for Nathan Horton.
* Participate in and/or preside over one of the largest bloodlettings in NHL history: firing Dave Nonis, Peter Horachek, assistant coach Steve Spott, video coach Chris Dennis, goalie coach Rick St. Croix, chief pro scout Steve Kasper, and director of player development Jim Hughes. And then approve Mark Hunter?s firing of a staggering 18-plus scouts on top if it.
* A month later, in a grand and much-hyped whale hunting expedition, hire what many consider to be the best coach in the world in Mike Babcock ? a move that many considered to be a fanciful pipe dream of only the most delusional fans.
* Hire the runner-up OHL coach of the year to coach the Marlies.
* Hire the OHL coach of the year as assistant coach of the Leafs.
* Watch a first-time 28-year-old Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel to orchestrate a draft that saw the team curiously trade down and stockpile picks using value charts to draft highly skilled players one after another ? a foreign concept to fans and media who follow the team closely, and one that was derided immediately by some traditionalist media types but widely praised by experts as a home-run draft and one of the best for the Leafs in decades.
* At the opening of free agency, trade the team?s best player ? who he deemed to be the lynchpin for their lack of effort ? in a ?get him out of town? trade that seemed ? and still seems ? to be a bit light on returns, but underscored an aggressive and focused plan of peeling back the team to its studs and leaving no stone unturned.
* Sign primarily analytics positive bargain players in free agency and not heed to the pressure of signing higher-profile players to bad contracts.
* Hire the lifetime New Jersey Devil and living legend General Manager, Lou Lamoriello ? a perfect counterbalance after the criticism faced for assembling a front office staff scant on NHL executive experience.
* Finally admits that team is not going to be good and encourages the fans to hang in there, telling them that ?there will be pain? and that their patience is appreciated.
* After the previous year of the tail wagging the dog and the media giving and getting more scandals than they could even handle (starting even before training camp), a much-needed airtight vacuum of information transfer creates a ghost town for the regular scoops and scandals.
* Watch as the newly assembled and seemingly unstoppable AHL team rips the league to shreds.
* Watch as the 2015 drafted prospects lead junior leagues in scoring at their respective positions at various points throughout the 2015-16 season.
* Instill a hard-working culture of defensively-responsible, tactically-nuanced and analytics-friendly hockey.
* Make amends with who many consider the best Maple Leaf of all time ? Dave Keon ? and lay to rest a decades-long standing feud ? a feat attempted and failed by many.
* Introduce new young players from the AHL for cameos and send them back down once the team is playing too well.
* Build up and ship out players at the trade deadline to acquire more picks as you prepare for a last-place finish.
* Get 12 draft picks for the upcoming draft.
* Conduct a hard-earned, last-place finish that is somehow praised and applauded.
* Get a standing ovation at home from the fans at season?s end despite finishing dead last in the NHL.
* Win the draft lottery in a year that a unicorn ? a big, extremely skilled, franchise centerman ? is the clear-cut first overall pick.
* Watch your top junior prospect win the OHL?s most outstanding player award.
* Prepare for your highly-favoured AHL team to push for the Calder Cup.

They forgot the Winnik trade.

 

[ZBBM]

That list is mighty impressive.  Yet as Bob Mackenzie mentioned on the radio the other day, all the low-hanging fruit has now been picked.  The improvements that need to take place from here on out will be incremental and much harder to accomplish.