Zee
Well-known member
Perhaps he just started to wear the Tavares super amulet?
The "Mr T" Man of the Match 2024-25 Edition
- Thread starter ZBBM
- Start date
Steeves just had a 6-game point streak where he recorded 16 points end with the Marlies. Just shows how drastically different the leagues are.
ZBBM
Well-known member
I guess so but the difference shouldn't be THAT much. Steeves, I get, he doesn't have the native talent, but Alex should be able to show better than he did when he was up. Not saying that he'd be great, but he should be better than he was.
ZBBM
Well-known member
G24 CHI v TOR: Leafs 4-1. MotM: Stolarz 10/1. HM: Marner 1/6. Others: Minten 0/4, Matthews 0/1.
G25: NSH v TOR: Leafs 3-2. MotM: Marner 7/2. HM: Matthews 2/6. Others: Woll 0/1.
G26: WSH v TOR: Capitals 3-1. MotM: Tavares 6/0 (unanimous). HM: Tanev 0/5. Others: W. Nylander 0/1.
G27: TOR v PIT: Penguins 5-2. MotM: Marner 3/1. HM: Woll 1/2. Others: Benoit 0/1.
G28: TOR v NJD: Leafs 2-1 OT. MotM: Stolarz 9/0 (unanimous). HM: Matthews 0/8. Others: Holmberg 0/1.
G29: ANA v TOR: Leafs 3-2. MotM: Pacioretty 8/0 (unanimous). HM: Nylander 0/6. Others: Tavares 0/2.
G30: TOR v DET: Wings 4-2. MotM; Marner 3/0 (unanimous). HM: McCabe 0/3 (unanimous).
G31: BUF v TOR: Leafs 5-3. MotM: Tavares 7/0 (unanimous). HM: Robertson 0/5. Others: Domi 0/2.
G32: TOR v DAL:
G33: TOR v BUF:
G34: NYI v TOR:
G35: TOR v WPG:
G36: TOR v DET:
G37: WSH v TOR:
G38: NYI v TOR:
Domi with his first point of the season.
G25: NSH v TOR: Leafs 3-2. MotM: Marner 7/2. HM: Matthews 2/6. Others: Woll 0/1.
G26: WSH v TOR: Capitals 3-1. MotM: Tavares 6/0 (unanimous). HM: Tanev 0/5. Others: W. Nylander 0/1.
G27: TOR v PIT: Penguins 5-2. MotM: Marner 3/1. HM: Woll 1/2. Others: Benoit 0/1.
G28: TOR v NJD: Leafs 2-1 OT. MotM: Stolarz 9/0 (unanimous). HM: Matthews 0/8. Others: Holmberg 0/1.
G29: ANA v TOR: Leafs 3-2. MotM: Pacioretty 8/0 (unanimous). HM: Nylander 0/6. Others: Tavares 0/2.
G30: TOR v DET: Wings 4-2. MotM; Marner 3/0 (unanimous). HM: McCabe 0/3 (unanimous).
G31: BUF v TOR: Leafs 5-3. MotM: Tavares 7/0 (unanimous). HM: Robertson 0/5. Others: Domi 0/2.
G32: TOR v DAL:
G33: TOR v BUF:
G34: NYI v TOR:
G35: TOR v WPG:
G36: TOR v DET:
G37: WSH v TOR:
G38: NYI v TOR:
| MotM/Win | MotM/Loss | HonMen | Accolades | Times Voted | Points | |
| Forwards | ||||||
| 24 Connor Dewar | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| 11 Max Domi | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| 71 Nikita Grebenkin | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| 29 Pontus Holmberg | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 3 |
| 19 Calle Järnkrok | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 18 Steven Lorentz | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 7 |
| 64 David Kämpf | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| 23 Matthew Knies | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 9 | 16 |
| 16 Mitch Marner | 5 | 4 | 4 | 13 | 15 | 42 |
| 34 Auston Matthews | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 9 |
| 74 Bobby McMann | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 7 |
| 39 Fraser Minten | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| 92 Alex Nylander | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 88 William Nylander | 1 | 0 | 5 | 6 | 11 | 19 |
| 67 Max Pacioretty | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 7 |
| 75 Ryan Reaves | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| 89 Nicholas Robertson | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 8 |
| 46 Alex Steeves | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 91 John Tavares | 3 | 1 | 3 | 7 | 10 | 24 |
| Defensemen | ||||||
| 2 Simon Benoit | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| 95 Oliver Ekman-Larsson | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 6 |
| 28 Jani Hakanpää | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 37 Timothy Liljegren | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 22 Jake McCabe | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 6 | 13 |
| 51 Philippe Myers | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 44 Morgan Rielly | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| 83 Marshall Rifai | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 8 Christopher Tanev | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 12 |
| 25 Conor Timmins | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| Goalkeepers | ||||||
| 35 Dennis Hildeby | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2.0 |
| 30 Matt Murray | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.0 |
| 41 Anthony Stolarz | 4 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 11 | 30.0 |
| 60 Joseph Woll | 2 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 6 | 13.0 |
Domi with his first point of the season.
L K
Well-known member
I wonder if the issue was skill. Nylander wasn't deserving of being in the top 6 but maybe playing him on the 3rd/4th line just wasn't the way to get production out of him.
I have a feeling that the gap between the NHL and AHL is getting bigger and bigger. Expansion played a big role in that as it essentially created 40 or so more NHL jobs with Vegas/Seattle coming in. I also think generally speaking younger players are spending less time in the AHL with teams wanting them with their NHL clubs to take advantage of their cheap ELC years as much as possible.
ZBBM
Well-known member
Good points, I hadn't thought of either.
Putting oneself into Steeves skates
Core 4 plus Knies, Pacioretty, Domi & McMann are going to be pretty tough to dislodge with a callup
So his focus had to be on the bottom 4
He shows up defending and hitting everything in sight trying to get a foothold with the team.
He gets 4 games, 11 mins/game, almost no PP time with pluggers. That is going to affect a player's offensive output
It's not all AHL vs NHL. Circumstances played a big part.
At the AHL level his ppg is consistently better than Alex Nylander.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
The difference is that much. Time and space, skill level, speed, everything. The AHL is closer to junior then it is the NHL.
ZBBM
Well-known member
That's an exaggeration. Unless every team in the league is lying about keeping players in the AHL to develop, sending them back there to find their games, etc.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
Have you watched an AHL game recently? It really is the most pronounced difference to the NHL I have seen.
The quality of competetion in the AHL is not very good. You have lots of very mediocre players with a smattering of some really good young talent. Those good players tend to stagnate because of the lack of challenging competition. So they become very good in the AHL, get to the NHL where the quality of competition is much much greater. So you get too good for the AHL, not good enough for the NHL.
There have been points equivalency studies done over the years. In the early 70s, NHL scoring projected to be ~42% of what the player scored in the AHL. They rose to ~50% in the late 70s due to NHL expansion and the WHA diluting the AHL - not because the AHL players were better - they were not. It hit about 45% in the early 90s after a wide open era of high scoring hockey. Those projection numbers are crudely similar today - about 40%. You have to be careful with them because someone might say "The KHL equivalency is much higher" but for example, that is in significant part because the KHL is a lower scoring league.
I would also say that I doubt any Leaf from a summer of beer and part time jobs in the 1960s who played on a 1960s Cup winner could show up playing with the fitness level, equipment, coaching etc they showed up with in the 1960s and crack the 2024-25 Leafs roster. Give those players the coaching, medical, diet, equipment and development today's players have enjoyed and there would be a different outcome - a bunch of them would crack the 2024-25 roster. But that is not what played in the 1960s.
The Marlies of recent years are a heck of a lot better than the Newmarket Saints or St Catherines, etc. They're playing a better brand of hockey. The league still has flaws relative to the NHL but I think it is much better executed hockey than it used to be (again, coaching, size & strength, speed, fitness, equipment, etc)
If you take Auston Matthews, cut his ice time in half with no PP ice time and have him playing with Lorentz and Dewar, what do you think will happen to his scoring? Most rational people would project a significant drop off.
Steeves has averaged .87ppg in the AHL. 1.47ppg this year. Take away his PP ice time, cut his ice time in half and only let him play with the AHL checking line. Who thinks he'll continue to score 1.47ppg in the AHL? Not very many.
Steeves career .87 AHL ppg projects to ~.35ppg in the NHL. A key reason for that fall off is a lot of the AHLers do not get the same ice time and PP time in the NHL. Yet .35ppg in the NHL projects to be a top 9 NHL forward (on the basis of scoring only -there is obviously more involved as Alex Nylander can tell you).
It is why players clamour for ice time.
Steeves got 4 games at 11 mins/game with the 4th line. .35ppg projects to 1.4 pts over those 4 games. But a significant part of the reason is the reduced opportunity from his ice time and the quality of that ice time - not completely due to him being total crap as an AHLer. Steeves could probably help low scoring teams like Detroit or Chicago right now. His AHL ppg is double any player Grand Rapid Griffins or Rockford Ice Hogs has.
It has always been that way.
When they went from the original six to 12 NHL teams and the WHA formed, we saw a major drop in the NHL with the added AHLers (and other minor leaguers).
The NHL has 23 x 32 teams = 736 of the best players they can find and sign.
The AHL has roughly 736 of the players who couldn't crack a NHL team
So there is bound to be a major difference in talent.
The AHL is a harder league to play in for the higher IQ players because the AHLers have lower hockey IQs
But it was that way in the 60s and 70s too.
It will be that way in the years to come.
Every year, there are players who graduate from the AHL to the NHL.
Leafs had at least two of them do so to stick last year: Benoit & McMann.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
I had a friend who was played in the AHL but could never crack the big show. He told me the jump to the AHL from the OHL is about 5 steps. From the AHL to the NHL, he said it's about 10 steps.
And yes they send them back to find their games because it's a less talented league and you're playing against lesser talent. There's no time to afford a kid to learn at the NHL level.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
The IQ thing is absolutely true. I've been to many Marlies games over the years and it was on display almost every game. Just an example...Ho Sang played at a different level compared to any of his linemates. They looked lost out there with him because he thinks the game at a complete different level. They would constantly flub his passes, go to the wrong spots etc.
To me, it has been that way for a long time.
However, it did improve some. Certainly by Quinn's years for the Leafs (probably before that). The AHL team implemented the NHL coach's system. I don't remember when that started but the media fussed over it in the '02 playoffs when AHLers were able to step in for all the injured Leafs and did a credible (almost miraculous) job - because they had learned the same system in the AHL.
That did not solve it entirely. But it helped not only with the callups but to reduce some of the poor decisions at the AHL level. For as long as the NHL coach was there, they were all on the same page in terms of systems.
Players like Ho Sang, Minten or Stajan (was an example from Quinn's years) - they tend to play better in the NHL because the NHLers are more frequently making reliable/predictable decisions that fit the system. Prior to that, the AHL could look like insane shinny at times and the guy with the higher hockey IQ would be more lost because the others are not thinking the game - as you saw with Ho Sang.
A lot has happened with the game since the 60s. The improvements were not isolated to the NHL level. To me, the AHL looks far more orderly today than it did decades ago.
Forrest Gump — 'I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floatin' around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it's both'
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
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