Tom Anselmi and MLSE

[pnjunction]

From what I've read this wasn't really a snap decision, it started with the meetings back in August and dissatisfaction with Burke at the time.

If they want something more corporate to represent their shiny new toy, have at it, but it raises my hackles and furthers my disinterest.

Someone wrote today, can't remember if it was Mirtle or Cox, that Cope wanted Burke gone from the start and made that known in meetings in August. Tannenbaum and Rogers were unwilling to play ball at the time, and it was only now that Cope finally convinced them and got his way.

When the guy said something along the lines of "when you make this decision you don't sit on it...you can't fake it" that to cynical me translates pretty much directly to "we made this decision and sat on it until now".  My guess is that they sat on this until the lockout was over and had been planning for a quite a while to pull the trigger on the day it ended.

 

[cw]

From what I've read this wasn't really a snap decision, it started with the meetings back in August and dissatisfaction with Burke at the time.

If they want something more corporate to represent their shiny new toy, have at it, but it raises my hackles and furthers my disinterest.

Someone wrote today, can't remember if it was Mirtle or Cox, that Cope wanted Burke gone from the start and made that known in meetings in August. Tannenbaum and Rogers were unwilling to play ball at the time, and it was only now that Cope finally convinced them and got his way.

When the guy said something along the lines of "when you make this decision you don't sit on it...you can't fake it" that to cynical me translates pretty much directly to "we made this decision and sat on it until now".  My guess is that they sat on this until the lockout was over and had been planning for a quite a while to pull the trigger on the day it ended.

It may have been that the Bell CEO, Cope, arrived in that place last summer but didn't have the other board of directors, from Rogers & Tanenbaum, onside until recently. From the description of Tanenbaum at the BoG meetings yesterday, he still didn't seem very enthusiastic for Burke's firing after it went down. With only 25% control, he's largely just a figurehead chairman of the board who can be a tie breaker in a Rogers-Bell dispute over MLSE direction. Publicly, he'll probably say he supports it but privately, based upon his actions and appearance, he didn't appear very supportive.

 

[Redleaf]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Had he not been manipulated into doing some of these moves, he probably would have still been fired yesterday, but perhaps he'd have left the team with a much deeper pool of prospects and rookies.

We have argued on this forum more than a few times as to whether on not this is true, but I believe it is.

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look like this pattern is going to change anytime soon from what I can gather from yesterday...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413255

 

[Justin]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I think truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Had he not been manipulated into doing some of these moves, he probably would have still been fired yesterday, but perhaps he'd have left the team with a much deeper pool of prospects and rookies.

We have argued on this forum more than a few times as to whether on not this is true, but I believe it is.

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look like this pattern is going to change anytime soon from what I can gather from yesterday...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413255

I don't know if that's true. Richard Peddie went on record yesterday saying he didn't agree with the Kessel trade but went along with it because he had faith in Brian.

 

[cw]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I think truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Had he not been manipulated into doing some of these moves, he probably would have still been fired yesterday, but perhaps he'd have left the team with a much deeper pool of prospects and rookies.

We have argued on this forum more than a few times as to whether on not this is true, but I believe it is.

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look like this pattern is going to change anytime soon from what I can gather from yesterday...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413255

I think they messed with JFJ but I don't think they made Burke do any deal he didn't want to do.

I do think they asked Burke to retool rather than rebuild. But I think Burke agreed that it could be done and went about doing just that.

Now, we have Nonis who is basically trapped to carry on that direction - he can't say "let's blow it up and start over".

I do agree with the article in general that no Leafs GM has truly attempted and stuck with a complete rebuild since '67. But a number of them went along with that rather than putting their foot down. Ownership carries blame but so do the GMs.

 

[ZBBM]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I think truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Had he not been manipulated into doing some of these moves, he probably would have still been fired yesterday, but perhaps he'd have left the team with a much deeper pool of prospects and rookies.

We have argued on this forum more than a few times as to whether on not this is true, but I believe it is.

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look like this pattern is going to change anytime soon from what I can gather from yesterday...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413255

I think they messed with JFJ but I don't think they made Burke do any deal he didn't want to do.

I do think they asked Burke to retool rather than rebuild. But I think Burke agreed that it could be done and went about doing just that.

Now, we have Nonis who is basically trapped to carry on that direction - he can't say "let's blow it up and start over".

I do agree with the article in general that no Leafs GM has truly attempted and stuck with a complete rebuild since '67. But a number of them went along with that rather than putting their foot down. Ownership carries blame but so do the GMs.

Why not?  There isn't that much to blow up, and besides, what's there now doesn't need to be blown up.  It's really a matter of another 3 or 4 years of patience (culminating in good drafts of course).

 

[Kin]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I think truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Despite the fact that the very article you quote says that Burke came to the team with more autonomy than any Leafs GM in recent memory.

Face facts. Burke dropped the ball on rebuilding the team. Attributing it later to meddling from the board is after the fact excuse making.

 

[BrownRolo]

Is Anselmi the official face of MLSE now? Because I found he came across really nasty in the press conference.

 

[Zee]

Is Anselmi the official face of MLSE now? Because I found he came across really nasty in the press conference.

Isn't he the new Richard Peddie?

 

[cw]

Great read here on the hopelessness of the Maple Leaf empire.....

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I think truly believe Burke was pressured by upper management into making some of those early deals, particulaly the Kessel one, in order to fast track the rebuilding process.

Had he not been manipulated into doing some of these moves, he probably would have still been fired yesterday, but perhaps he'd have left the team with a much deeper pool of prospects and rookies.

We have argued on this forum more than a few times as to whether on not this is true, but I believe it is.

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look like this pattern is going to change anytime soon from what I can gather from yesterday...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413255

I think they messed with JFJ but I don't think they made Burke do any deal he didn't want to do.

I do think they asked Burke to retool rather than rebuild. But I think Burke agreed that it could be done and went about doing just that.

Now, we have Nonis who is basically trapped to carry on that direction - he can't say "let's blow it up and start over".

I do agree with the article in general that no Leafs GM has truly attempted and stuck with a complete rebuild since '67. But a number of them went along with that rather than putting their foot down. Ownership carries blame but so do the GMs.

Why not?  There isn't that much to blow up, and besides, what's there now doesn't need to be blown up.  It's really a matter of another 3 or 4 years of patience (culminating in good drafts of course).

Nonis won't get renewed if he isn't in the playoffs before his three year deal expires. In fact, if he doesn't get them in the playoffs over the next couple of seasons, he may be toast. He has no time for a rebuild. He's been touting the farm system and a number of Burke's philosophies on constructing the team. He'll survive or become unemployed fairly soon on that.

It would take a pretty extreme eating of Luongo's contract by the Canucks for me to consider him under "normal" circumstances. But if I'm Nonis, and I want to survive for more than a couple of years with these MLSE sharks who seem more concerned about the size of their member, I'd look at snagging Luongo because the guy who replaces me in a number of years will have to dig out from that financial cap mess. Meanwhile, I'd have a better chance of making the playoffs in the short term and could elect to move on at the end of my deal.

The chances of Burke succeeding in the relative near future with his retooling were slim. That hasn't changed with Nonis and I don't see it changing anytime soon. They don't have a franchise player. They don't have a #1 center, stud dman nor top caliber goalie. And it will be tough to get all three while drafting from a middle position as they either sneak in or just fall short of the playoffs.

If Kessel walks away after next season for nothing, what a mess that will be. Etc.

Nonis is truly handicapped with what he's inherited. He needs a Gilmour like trade or some luck of that magnitude to survive this mess longer term. A rebuild is out of the question.

 

[Justin]

Is Anselmi the official face of MLSE now? Because I found he came across really nasty in the press conference.

Isn't he the new Richard Peddie?

Sort of. Anselmi is the COO while Peddie was the CEO. Even though they appointed Anselmi and Peddie's replacement I've read that they're still keen on getting a new guy in there to be CEO. Some have said MLSE might recruit Tim Leiweke from AEG who may jump ship after the proposed sale of AEG goes through later this year. Liewke runs AEG which owns the LA Kings, LA Galaxy, part of the Lakers, the LA Live entertainment complex, and the o2 arena in London.

 

[Redleaf]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

 

[Bender]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

I think Burke was doing what was asked of him all along. I think if he was hired and management said "Start from scratch, take as long as you need to develop, if you have to bottom out, you bottom out" then I think he would've done just that.

 

[cw]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

a) Burke left his GM job in Anaheim and agreed to do this when he could have declined.
b) those remarks are a little out of context where Burke has also expressed disdain for GMs who get up and tout five year rebuilding plans, etc when they're hired.

Burke could have sold MLSE management on a rebuild. When he accepted retooling, he has to take responsibility for that direction. He agreed to do it and  how he performed should be measured against what he agreed to do as GM.

 

[Peter D.]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

Oddly enough, I'm going to give MLSE a bit of a reprieve on this one.  I think Burke is just as guilty here as anyone.

He has repeatedly said over the years, at press conferences and in radio interviews, that he is a very impatient person at this stage in his life and he couldn't wait around for five years.  Then after things hadn't obviously gone as he expected with non-playoff appearances piling up, he does a round-about suggesting that this is a long process and that rebuilding takes a while.

It's stuff like this where I wish Burke wasn't so blustery and he just went about his business in a much quieter manner.  His mouth is/was his own worst enemy throughout his tenure.

That said, I don't doubt that MLSE may have requested he bring back playoff hockey to the city of Toronto.  I just hope new ownership has learned the lesson from recent years that even if you try and fast track things, it guarantees absolutely nothing and could set the team back even further for years.

 

[Kin]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

a) Burke left his GM job in Anaheim and agreed to do this when he could have declined.
b) those remarks are a little out of context where Burke has also expressed disdain for GMs who get up and tout five year rebuilding plans, etc when they're hired.

Burke could have sold MLSE management on a rebuild. When he accepted retooling, he has to take responsibility for that direction. He agreed to do it and  how he performed should be measured against what he agreed to do as GM.

I agree with that but, even if someone were to think that the board at the time was only set on having a relatively quick turnaround that still doesn't constitute pressure being put on Burke to make the Kessel trade or any other deal. If his mandate was to quickly improve the team, there were lots of ways to do it that didn't involve trading first round picks. There were trades out there that weren't Phaneuf or Kessel, free agents besides Komisarek and Connolly.

No matter what the strategy was Burke, like JFJ, still is ultimately responsible for the poor decisions he made in pursuit of that goal.

 

[rdowdall]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

a) Burke left his GM job in Anaheim and agreed to do this when he could have declined.
b) those remarks are a little out of context where Burke has also expressed disdain for GMs who get up and tout five year rebuilding plans, etc when they're hired.

Burke could have sold MLSE management on a rebuild. When he accepted retooling, he has to take responsibility for that direction. He agreed to do it and  how he performed should be measured against what he agreed to do as GM.

I agree with that but, even if someone were to think that the board at the time was only set on having a relatively quick turnaround that still doesn't constitute pressure being put on Burke to make the Kessel trade or any other deal. If his mandate was to quickly improve the team, there were lots of ways to do it that didn't involve trading first round picks. There were trades out there that weren't Phaneuf or Kessel, free agents besides Komisarek and Connolly.

No matter what the strategy was Burke, like JFJ, still is ultimately responsible for the poor decisions he made in pursuit of that goal.

Ultimately that has been the problem in Toronto.  More often than not the GM's of the Toronto Maple Leafs make the wrong decision.  Occasionally, they not only make the wrong decision, they make a horrible decision (Kurvers deal, Kessel deal, Rask deal).  Regardless of what MLSE wants, the GM that is in place needs to make the correct decisions.  When Fletcher came in, he made good decisions.  When Dryden came in, there were good decisions made.  What the Leafs need from Nonis is for him to make the correct decisions, and move this team forward.  Really in the situation the are in, if there is one misstep, they will stay where they are at.

 

[Bender]

This has always been the Burke quote that's bugged me. It just reeks of MLSE pressure.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're rebuilding here, we're retooling."

a) Burke left his GM job in Anaheim and agreed to do this when he could have declined.
b) those remarks are a little out of context where Burke has also expressed disdain for GMs who get up and tout five year rebuilding plans, etc when they're hired.

Burke could have sold MLSE management on a rebuild. When he accepted retooling, he has to take responsibility for that direction. He agreed to do it and  how he performed should be measured against what he agreed to do as GM.

I agree with that but, even if someone were to think that the board at the time was only set on having a relatively quick turnaround that still doesn't constitute pressure being put on Burke to make the Kessel trade or any other deal. If his mandate was to quickly improve the team, there were lots of ways to do it that didn't involve trading first round picks. There were trades out there that weren't Phaneuf or Kessel, free agents besides Komisarek and Connolly.

No matter what the strategy was Burke, like JFJ, still is ultimately responsible for the poor decisions he made in pursuit of that goal.

Ultimately that has been the problem in Toronto.  More often than not the GM's of the Toronto Maple Leafs make the wrong decision.  Occasionally, they not only make the wrong decision, they make a horrible decision (Kurvers deal, Kessel deal, Rask deal).  Regardless of what MLSE wants, the GM that is in place needs to make the correct decisions.  When Fletcher came in, he made good decisions.  When Dryden came in, there were good decisions made.  What the Leafs need from Nonis is for him to make the correct decisions, and move this team forward.  Really in the situation the are in, if there is one misstep, they will stay where they are at.

Who would've thought the Rask deal would set into motion  a decade of wandering the desert. He would've been our #1 two or more years ago.

 

[Peter D.]

Who would've thought the Rask deal would set into motion  a decade of wandering the desert. He would've been our #1 two or more years ago.

But we had Justin Pogge! 

That trade to this day still has my blood boiling whenever I hear or think about it.

EDIT: This goes back to Nik's point, but there is absolutely no way I will ever believe ownership told JFJ to make this deal. 

 

[rdowdall]

Who would've thought the Rask deal would set into motion  a decade of wandering the desert. He would've been our #1 two or more years ago.

But we had Justin Pogge! 

That trade to this day still has my blood boiling whenever I hear or think about it.

EDIT: This goes back to Nik's point, but there is absolutely no way I will ever believe ownership told JFJ to make this deal.

I don't think ownership has that kind of insight.  I think if ownership is making demands to it's GM's then it's more along the lines of "Get a starting goalie", or "Flush out your pitching" or "Why have you gone through so many point guards when you have one that seems to be eager and capable of playing the position, but yet you refuse to use him as the starter?" 

I doubt very highly that the mandate from ownership was "Get us Andrew Raycroft."