Tyson Barrie Conundrum

[ZBBM]

Good Lord.

They aren't going to be re-signing Barrie.  He's a train wreck defensively.  He's been underwhelming offensively.  They've got a replacement in Liljegren.  And yet here he is, still on the team.

Dubas should have dumped him for whatever he could get.  But no.  So, is the excuse that doing so would have "sent a message" that they are giving up on the season?  Well, the players themselves sent a 20-minute-long message Saturday night that they have given up ? on being committed to playing the kind of hockey needed when matched up against a team that won't let them just play their Dubas style.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A part of me still wants to see Barrie re-sign to a below market deal just to see people's heads explode.

 

[bustaheims]

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit.

Yup. I was firmly on the "trade Barrie" train, but that was because I felt there'd be a good return for him. If the best the Leafs were being offered were mid-round picks or so-so prospects, holding on to him was the right move.

 

[ZBBM]

Good deal ? if they are willing to let him go to the Kraken or trade him if things are stagnating the next couple of years.  He does bring several things this team is desperately short of. 

On the other side of the ledger, he's not really all that great most of the time.

I'd feel better about the day if Dubas had at least gotten rid of Barrie.  But he couldn't even manage to do that.

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit. And Muzz is a pretty steady D man night in, night out. We can use another like him on the right side.

1. Of course not.  But they could have gotten *something* for him, and should have.

2. As I said with regard to Muzzin, *if* things are stagnating in the next couple of years I hope Dubas is willing to move him.  Thus far he seems unable to move on from his mistakes (see Point #1).

 

[Guilt Trip]

A part of me still wants to see Barrie re-sign to a below market deal just to see people's heads explode.

That would be awesome lol.

 

[ZBBM]

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit.

Yup. I was firmly on the "trade Barrie" train, but that was because I felt there'd be a good return for him. If the best the Leafs were being offered were mid-round picks or so-so prospects, holding on to him was the right move.

Why?  I genuinely would like to know your thinking.

 

[Strangelove]

Good deal ? if they are willing to let him go to the Kraken or trade him if things are stagnating the next couple of years.  He does bring several things this team is desperately short of. 

On the other side of the ledger, he's not really all that great most of the time.

I'd feel better about the day if Dubas had at least gotten rid of Barrie.  But he couldn't even manage to do that.

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit. And Muzz is a pretty steady D man night in, night out. We can use another like him on the right side.

1. Of course not.  But they could have gotten *something* for him, and should have.

2. As I said with regard to Muzzin, *if* things are stagnating in the next couple of years I hope Dubas is willing to move him.  Thus far he seems unable to move on from his mistakes (see Point #1).

They are getting Barrie for the rest of the season as they fight for a playoff spot and try to make a run. There is value there. He has another gear if the team can figure out how to use it.

 

[ZBBM]

A part of me still wants to see Barrie re-sign to a below market deal just to see people's heads explode.

Sure, if you like watching them keep on doing what they're doing now defensively.  It's so entertaining.

 

[ZBBM]

Good deal ? if they are willing to let him go to the Kraken or trade him if things are stagnating the next couple of years.  He does bring several things this team is desperately short of. 

On the other side of the ledger, he's not really all that great most of the time.

I'd feel better about the day if Dubas had at least gotten rid of Barrie.  But he couldn't even manage to do that.

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit. And Muzz is a pretty steady D man night in, night out. We can use another like him on the right side.

1. Of course not.  But they could have gotten *something* for him, and should have.

2. As I said with regard to Muzzin, *if* things are stagnating in the next couple of years I hope Dubas is willing to move him.  Thus far he seems unable to move on from his mistakes (see Point #1).

They are getting Barrie for the rest of the season as they fight for a playoff spot and try to make a run. There is value there. He has another gear if the team can figure out how to use it.

That was what the coaching change was supposed to accomplish.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A part of me still wants to see Barrie re-sign to a below market deal just to see people's heads explode.

Sure, if you like watching them keep on doing what they're doing now defensively.  It's so entertaining.

Swapping one defenceman is going to fix that? Especially without knowing if the replacement defenceman is any better?

 

[bustaheims]

Why?  I genuinely would like to know your thinking.

Because, I don't think a 3rd pick is more valuable that holding on to him, and hoping the embarrassment the team faced on Saturday lights a fire under their asses. It doesn't help the team in the present, and it's unlikely to help the team in the near future. A 3rd pick is almost certainly at least 3 years away from becoming a contributor for the team - and that's if they beat the odds and are actually an NHL player. That kind of deal doesn't move the needle enough for the kind of message it sends.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Good deal ? if they are willing to let him go to the Kraken or trade him if things are stagnating the next couple of years.  He does bring several things this team is desperately short of. 

On the other side of the ledger, he's not really all that great most of the time.

I'd feel better about the day if Dubas had at least gotten rid of Barrie.  But he couldn't even manage to do that.

You're not giving Barrie away for nothing. Leafs needed a replacement for him and obviously there wasn't a fit. And Muzz is a pretty steady D man night in, night out. We can use another like him on the right side.

1. Of course not.  But they could have gotten *something* for him, and should have.

2. As I said with regard to Muzzin, *if* things are stagnating in the next couple of years I hope Dubas is willing to move him.  Thus far he seems unable to move on from his mistakes (see Point #1).

They are getting Barrie for the rest of the season as they fight for a playoff spot and try to make a run. There is value there. He has another gear if the team can figure out how to use it.

That was what the coaching change was supposed to accomplish.

And for the most part, it has. Barrie was lost under Babs.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He has another gear if the team can figure out how to use it.

That was what the coaching change was supposed to accomplish.

Since you brought it up, since the coaching change he's:

Scored at a 57 point pace (1st among Leafs defencemen)
Played 21:41 a game (2nd among Leafs defencemen)
52.55% CF (3rd)
56.94% GF (2nd)
3.42 GF/60 (2nd)
2.59 GA/60 (3rd)

 

[herman]

Best RHD on the market today for the way the Leafs play if he just stops defaulting to ripping a slapper from the blueline. That?s the only change he needs to make. And he?s already doing it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm going to close this and the Muzzin thread for a couple minutes to move the Barrie talk to it's own one since it's trickling into different parts.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yell about Barrie here please.

 

[Hobbes]

<transplanted from the Muz thread>

Why?  I genuinely would like to know your thinking.

You keep saying " they could have gotten *something* for him, and should have" without there being any evidence to support that statement; meanwhile today is the smoking-gun that says that the Leafs management team didn't receive an offer for him that they considered worth going ahead with.

With any player there's some sort of cut-off beyond which it simply doesn't make sense to do a deal. What's your cut-off with Barrie? Would a 4th round pick have satisfied you? A 3rd? A 2nd? A 2028 7th rounder? A bag of used pucks? It would be helpful to know what you think Dubas was supposed to have gotten (and bonus points if you can also identify a couple teams that could have met your expectations and benefited from it themselves).

 

[Kin]

I think anyone thinking that dealing Barrie would have been easy should really think about what that decision could potentially mean for the Maple Leafs as a business, to say nothing of them as a competitive enterprise.

 

[rdowdall]

Best RHD on the market today for the way the Leafs play if he just stops defaulting to ripping a slapper from the blueline. That?s the only change he needs to make. And he?s already doing it.

I know what you are saying.  He needs to be more selective in his shot taking.

However, I do think the Leafs need a bomb from the point.  That's why I found Dumba interesting.  The Leafs really love that cross seam pass, so other teams take it away from them.  With a guy on the point who can hammer a shot through that has a chance to score, it becomes something else the opposing defence has to worry about, and that hopefully opens up the cross seam pass.

He just has to use it at the right time.  Also not hammering it in to someones shins would be good as well.

 

[herman]

Bomb from the top of the circles of a silky Marner feed >>> desperation bomb from where the blueline meets the boards

Both Muzzin and Barrie have curtailed their tendency to fire at will in recent weeks.