Unofficial 2012/2013 Armchair GM

[Britishbulldog]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe people want to move Kessel for a somewhat unproven potential first liner.

Praying are we??

;D

 

[maplesyrup]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe people want to move Kessel for a somewhat unproven potential first liner.

Praying are we??

;D

I'm by no means in favour of moving Kessel for anything less than he's worth but I think it's important to remember he's under contract for only one more season.

 

[Champ Kind]

It's the "unproven" centre but also the potential top 3 1st round pick we are looking at here. 

And.. just playing around.

So a raffle ticket and O'Reilly?

I'll take Kessel and his point per game and try and put complimentary pieces beside him.

That's one heck of a raffle ticket.  Sign me up.

*edit: sorry, Rob, you beat me to it.

**edit #2: I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that while Kessel is a great talent and excellent goal-scorer, he himself is a complimentary piece and what the Leafs needs is a foundational-type player

***edit #3 (I promise the last one): Corn, you might be playing around, but I rather like your proposed deal and my initial reaction is that I would seriously it.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I see Kessel as a fantastic complimentary top piece for the Leafs for the next 10 years.  @ $5.4 MIL he is decent value.  If a top player could be added for $7 - $7.5 MIL (like a Getzlaf) then the Leafs would need to shed a salary of $4 MIL + meaning  either JVR, Lupul, Kessel or Grabovski without debate. 

The Leafs could then include 2 solid players in the $3 - $4 MIL range like MacArthur, Kulemin, Stewart, Clowe, Clarkson.

Add 3 decent ELCs or second contracts like Bozak, Frattin and Kadri in the $1 MIL - $2.5 MIL range.

Fill in the last 4 roster spots (including the 2 in the press box) at league minimum to $1 MIL and you basically have a $38 MIL forward group.

That leaves $2 MIL for buyouts next year, $3 MIL for the 2 goalies and $19 MIL to keep the defensemen we have this year. 

 

[Britishbulldog]

It's the "unproven" centre but also the potential top 3 1st round pick we are looking at here. 

And.. just playing around.

So a raffle ticket and O'Reilly?

I'll take Kessel and his point per game and try and put complimentary pieces beside him.

That's one heck of a raffle ticket.  Sign me up.

*edit: sorry, Rob, you beat me to it.

**edit #2: I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that while Kessel is a great talent and excellent goal-scorer, he himself is a complimentary piece and what the Leafs needs is a foundational-type player

***edit #3 (I promise the last one): Corn, you might be playing around, but I rather like your proposed deal and my initial reaction is that I would seriously it.

I agree with your edit #2. 

 

[Corn Flake]

**edit #2: I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that while Kessel is a great talent and excellent goal-scorer, he himself is a complimentary piece and what the Leafs needs is a foundational-type player

***edit #3 (I promise the last one): Corn, you might be playing around, but I rather like your proposed deal and my initial reaction is that I would seriously it.

re: edit 2: this is where my mind is going when I look at Kessel, and Phaneuf for that matter, and my gradual increasing doubt that they are pieces that are foundation and/or that you can acquire foundation pieces around them without using them as trade bait.

re: edit 3: playing around, but I don't think it's that far fetched either.  If you can get that 1st line centre in the making, which O'Rielly may very well be, plus a 1st rounder I think (just IMO) is going to be pretty high then it could be about as good a return for Kessel as you can expect. 

 

[Britishbulldog]

I think someone here commented on seeing if Weber might be available...I think for Kessel.  I am crunched timewise right now with a deadline and can't go look.  I am in the camp that Kessel should be kept.

If anything was serious about that trade it would be Phaneuf as trade bait (using CF's term)  going the other way with Kulemin or a player like Kulemin I would think.  Cash strapped Nashville are paying Weber $80 MIL in the next 6 years which is CRAZY money.  Phaneuf is owed $6.5 this year and $5.5 next.

A player like Weber could obviously anchor a top team for many years and a rich team like the Leafs, Rangers or Philadelphia could easily cover his salary unlike the small market teams.  I also didn't see a NTC on Weber's contract.

I need 2 Kulemins because I actually wanted to use him with Grabovski to try to snag Getzlaf.  Phanuef + Kadri or Frattin for Weber?

Weber and Getlzaf with half decent goaltending would be a solid foundation for the next 8 years.

Edit: I wonder how bad Weber, Getzlaf, Clarkson, Clowe or Stewart would like to leave their top teams for the Leafs??  I don't know if any would. 

 

[Champ Kind]

**edit #2: I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that while Kessel is a great talent and excellent goal-scorer, he himself is a complimentary piece and what the Leafs needs is a foundational-type player

***edit #3 (I promise the last one): Corn, you might be playing around, but I rather like your proposed deal and my initial reaction is that I would seriously it.

re: edit 2: this is where my mind is going when I look at Kessel, and Phaneuf for that matter, and my gradual increasing doubt that they are pieces that are foundation and/or that you can acquire foundation pieces around them without using them as trade bait.

re: edit 3: playing around, but I don't think it's that far fetched either.  If you can get that 1st line centre in the making, which O'Rielly may very well be, plus a 1st rounder I think (just IMO) is going to be pretty high then it could be about as good a return for Kessel as you can expect.

My thinking exactly.  I can't help but think there are some parallels between Kessel and Bargnani on the Raptors.  Both are very taleneted and play one or semi-demensional games very well.  Both are still young guys despite having significant professional experience under their belt.  And both are, from the fans perspective, introverted personalities who don't quite seem to give what is expected of them. 

With that in mind, would anyone argue that Bargnani is a player the Raptors can build around?  In fact, we have evidence (like, the last six years) that suggests otherwise.  Now, maybe with Rudy Gay in town Bargnani will prove to be an important piece to the puzzle.  But he's not the centrepiece, clearly.

That's how I feel about Kessel.  Love his talent, like his goal-scoring ability, but I think the Leafs' best shot at landing a marquee, franchise, cornerstone-type player is by trading Phil Kessel.  If Nonis can bring in a Riudy Gay-like player (Getzlaf, for example), then my opinion changes.  But barring that needle-in-a-haystack scenario, I think the Leafs need the return for Kessel more than they need Kessel himself.

 

[Kin]

My thinking exactly.  I can't help but think there are some parallels between Kessel and Bargnani on the Raptors.  Both are very taleneted and play one or semi-demensional games very well.  Both are still young guys despite having significant professional experience under their belt.  And both are, from the fans perspective, introverted personalities who don't quite seem to give what is expected of them. 

With that in mind, would anyone argue that Bargnani is a player the Raptors can build around?  In fact, we have evidence (like, the last six years) that suggests otherwise.  Now, maybe with Rudy Gay in town Bargnani will prove to be an important piece to the puzzle.  But he's not the centrepiece, clearly.

That's how I feel about Kessel.  Love his talent, like his goal-scoring ability, but I think the Leafs' best shot at landing a marquee, franchise, cornerstone-type player is by trading Phil Kessel.  If Nonis can bring in a Riudy Gay-like player (Getzlaf, for example), then my opinion changes.  But barring that needle-in-a-haystack scenario, I think the Leafs need the return for Kessel more than they need Kessel himself.

Obviously it's somewhat different because of the different natures of the respective sports but that very comparison came to mind watching the basketball game the other night. Well said.

 

[TML fan]

I think that every foundation has 4 walls, none more important than the other. I don't think it is possible to build a team, in any sport, around 1 player.

 

[pmrules]

It's the "unproven" centre but also the potential top 3 1st round pick we are looking at here. 

And.. just playing around.

Extremely extremely thin chance there. It's not even a top 5 pick right now, and they'd be adding a 1st line winger and a solid centre to their lineup without taking anything out of it.

That's what Bryan Burke thought too! (without the centre part obviously) 

 

[Champ Kind]

I think that every foundation has 4 walls, none more important than the other. I don't think it is possible to build a team, in any sport, around 1 player.

I'm not sure where that was suggested but I agree with you.  But I suppose some walls are load bearing and some are not.

 

[Kin]

I think that every foundation has 4 walls, none more important than the other. I don't think it is possible to build a team, in any sport, around 1 player.

I'm not sure where that was suggested but I agree with you.  But I suppose some walls are load bearing and some are not.

I'm no engineer but do foundations even have walls? I thought you built a wall on a foundation.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm no engineer but do foundations even have walls? I thought you built a wall on a foundation.

That's how I've always understood it.

 

[maplesyrup]

Walls, Andy! Walls!

 

[Champ Kind]

I'm no engineer but do foundations even have walls? I thought you built a wall on a foundation.

That's how I've always understood it.

Let me check with Mike Holmes.

*****

Yes, you're right.

 

[PG]

**edit #2: I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that while Kessel is a great talent and excellent goal-scorer, he himself is a complimentary piece and what the Leafs needs is a foundational-type player

***edit #3 (I promise the last one): Corn, you might be playing around, but I rather like your proposed deal and my initial reaction is that I would seriously it.

re: edit 2: this is where my mind is going when I look at Kessel, and Phaneuf for that matter, and my gradual increasing doubt that they are pieces that are foundation and/or that you can acquire foundation pieces around them without using them as trade bait.

re: edit 3: playing around, but I don't think it's that far fetched either.  If you can get that 1st line centre in the making, which O'Rielly may very well be, plus a 1st rounder I think (just IMO) is going to be pretty high then it could be about as good a return for Kessel as you can expect.

My thinking exactly.  I can't help but think there are some parallels between Kessel and Bargnani on the Raptors.  Both are very taleneted and play one or semi-demensional games very well.  Both are still young guys despite having significant professional experience under their belt.  And both are, from the fans perspective, introverted personalities who don't quite seem to give what is expected of them. 

With that in mind, would anyone argue that Bargnani is a player the Raptors can build around?  In fact, we have evidence (like, the last six years) that suggests otherwise.  Now, maybe with Rudy Gay in town Bargnani will prove to be an important piece to the puzzle.  But he's not the centrepiece, clearly.

That's how I feel about Kessel.  Love his talent, like his goal-scoring ability, but I think the Leafs' best shot at landing a marquee, franchise, cornerstone-type player is by trading Phil Kessel.  If Nonis can bring in a Riudy Gay-like player (Getzlaf, for example), then my opinion changes.  But barring that needle-in-a-haystack scenario, I think the Leafs need the return for Kessel more than they need Kessel himself.

Excellent comparison. Totally agree....trading Kessel is the key to actually building this team properly.

 

[TML fan]

Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me.

 

[sneakyray]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

 

[Peter D.]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.