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Vulgarities and the media

Deebo said:
Nik the Trik said:
Deebo said:
I don't think him getting fired is a proportionate response.

A corporation, government owned or other wise, doesn't fire people because they feel it's "proportionate". They fire people because they think it's overall in their best interest.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

I think the company would be okay if they believed that his place of employment could become known as people identified him. 

This is an excerpt from a judge in a case (Kelly v. Linamar Corporation) involving an employee fired for being charged (but not yet convicted) of possession child pornography.  Obviously completely different degrees of seriousness, but the judge's comments I think can apply here:

Whether or not Mr. Kelly made any admission of culpability, it is clear that the decision to terminate Mr. Kelly was not made lightly.  The decision was made following the hands-on involvement of his supervisor, Shawn Marshall, Beverly O?Neill, the Employee Relations Manager of Emtol, Michael Annable, now the Executive Vice-President of Linamar but at that time the Vice-President in charge of Human Resources, Information Technology and Administration, and Linda Hasenfratz, the Chief Executive Officer of Linamar.  The executives considered Linamar?s reputation in the community, concerns that had been raised briefly by employees who worked with Mr. Kelly and at least one incident which had been perceived (probably correctly) as a threat to Mr. Kelly?s safety.  They also considered the fact that the child pornography was located on a personal computer at Mr. Kelly?s home and as far as anyone was aware (subsequently confirmed) did not involve the use of company computers nor any activity taking place on company time.  Having considered all of the options available, they concluded that termination of Mr. Kelly was the appropriate course of action and the letter referred to at paragraph [10] was drafted and sent.



      The defendant argues that an employee in the position of Philip Kelly, who is required to work with the general public both acquiring product from suppliers and supplying product to customers, who is required to manage, instruct and discipline people working under him, and who is required to interact collegially with many peers at the management level, has a duty to ensure that his conduct does not adversely impact on any of those activities.  It is argued that permitting himself to be placed in the position where he would be charged with possession of child pornography, which fact became almost immediately known to his management peers, co-workers and people who reported to him, and which ultimately became known to the general public when at a later stage the identity of his employer was disclosed, he has failed to discharge the duty that he has to his employer.



      I agree.  Linamar has over a long period of time built up a good reputation which it jealously protects.  That reputation includes the promotion of its activities with young people outlined earlier.  A company is entitled to take reasonable steps to protect such a reputation and the termination of Philip Kelly was just such a step.  The employer has demonstrated just cause on far more than the balance of probabilities.
 
Deebo said:
I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

It depends on what this employee code of conduct says. If it gives the company wide latitude, he's be SOL.

People forget that the concept of individual liberties in a social contract sense don't mean you can say or do what you want without consequence, it means the Government can't throw you in jail for it or it's not grounds for someone else to, say, beat you up. If I own a company and one of my employees does something I feel damages public perception of my business, it seems like a much bigger violation of my rights to say I can't fire him than it would of his if I did.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Deebo said:
I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

It depends on what this employee code of conduct says. If it gives the company wide latitude, he's be SOL.

People forget that the concept of individual liberties in a social contract sense don't mean you can say or do what you want without consequence, it means the Government can't throw you in jail for it or it's not grounds for someone else to, say, beat you up. If I own a company and one of my employees does something I feel damages public perception of my business, it seems like a much bigger violation of my rights to say I can't fire him than it would of his if I did.

You are free to fire whoever you want, you might just have to pay them more in severance than you would like.
 
Deebo said:
Nik the Trik said:
Deebo said:
I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

It depends on what this employee code of conduct says. If it gives the company wide latitude, he's be SOL.

People forget that the concept of individual liberties in a social contract sense don't mean you can say or do what you want without consequence, it means the Government can't throw you in jail for it or it's not grounds for someone else to, say, beat you up. If I own a company and one of my employees does something I feel damages public perception of my business, it seems like a much bigger violation of my rights to say I can't fire him than it would of his if I did.

You are free to fire whoever you want, you might just have to pay them more in severance than you would like.

More than if he were to keep him as an employee?
 
TML fan said:
Deebo said:
Nik the Trik said:
Deebo said:
I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

It depends on what this employee code of conduct says. If it gives the company wide latitude, he's be SOL.

People forget that the concept of individual liberties in a social contract sense don't mean you can say or do what you want without consequence, it means the Government can't throw you in jail for it or it's not grounds for someone else to, say, beat you up. If I own a company and one of my employees does something I feel damages public perception of my business, it seems like a much bigger violation of my rights to say I can't fire him than it would of his if I did.

You are free to fire whoever you want, you might just have to pay them more in severance than you would like.

More than if he were to keep him as an employee?

Yeah, because you'd theoretically have to pay a salary to a replacement in addition to the severance.
 
Deebo said:
TML fan said:
Deebo said:
Nik the Trik said:
Deebo said:
I don't want to sound like I'm defending his actions, because I think the guy seems like an jerk.

I'm just wondering if he is being given a handsome severance package because being an jerk doesn't seem like grounds for dismissal. If he was performing his job well and he hasn't been in any trouble before, I think it'd be pretty easy for a lawyer to make a case for wrongful dismissal. On the other hand he may have a track record of this sort behaviour.

It depends on what this employee code of conduct says. If it gives the company wide latitude, he's be SOL.

People forget that the concept of individual liberties in a social contract sense don't mean you can say or do what you want without consequence, it means the Government can't throw you in jail for it or it's not grounds for someone else to, say, beat you up. If I own a company and one of my employees does something I feel damages public perception of my business, it seems like a much bigger violation of my rights to say I can't fire him than it would of his if I did.

You are free to fire whoever you want, you might just have to pay them more in severance than you would like.

More than if he were to keep him as an employee?

Yeah, because you'd theoretically have to pay a salary to a replacement in addition to the severance.

True, but only for a short period of time. I'm sure these are all things Hydro One's undoubtedly enormous legal department looked into before any decisions were made.
 
http://www.hydroone.com/Careers/Documents/Code_of_Business_Conduct.pdf
See page 8 and 11.

Even with a severance, it's still better for Hydro One to cut it off here and now than to risk losing business and reputation going forward.
 
I don't understand why anyone would question that this constitutes sexual assault.  It's an exhortation to commit rape.  Anybody stupid enough to do this on camera?  If I'm an employer this is the easiest termination decision I'd ever have to make, and I wouldn't be the least concerned about pushback from the fired guy.  You don't need a legal department to make this call.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't understand why anyone would question that this constitutes sexual assault.  It's an exhortation to commit rape.  Anybody stupid enough to do this on camera?  If I'm an employer this is the easiest termination decision I'd ever have to make, and I wouldn't be the least concerned about pushback from the fired guy.  You don't need a legal department to make this call.

I hate, hate, hate even somewhat defending this complete morons, but to be clear these guys never actually said the FHRINP line, they just defended its use (again, using the kind of reasoning you would expect from a couple of complete morons). So I'm not really sure you could say that these two guys committed sexual assault.

With that said, do I think these two morons (and I'd be using much harsher language when describing them if this wasn't on a PG forum) deserve getting fired for something like this? Maybe not, but all too often people like them get rewarded with way too much in life (god how does somebody like that guy who can probably barely breath have a job making $100k?), so I won't lose any sleep over one of them losing that.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't understand why anyone would question that this constitutes sexual assault.  It's an exhortation to commit rape.  Anybody stupid enough to do this on camera?  If I'm an employer this is the easiest termination decision I'd ever have to make, and I wouldn't be the least concerned about pushback from the fired guy.  You don't need a legal department to make this call.

I hate, hate, hate even somewhat defending this complete morons, but to be clear these guys never actually said the FHRINP line, they just defended its use (again, using the kind of reasoning you would expect from a couple of complete morons). So I'm not really sure you could say that these two guys committed sexual assault.

The guy does say "you're lucky there's not a vibrator in your ear like in England" though.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't understand why anyone would question that this constitutes sexual assault.  It's an exhortation to commit rape.  Anybody stupid enough to do this on camera?  If I'm an employer this is the easiest termination decision I'd ever have to make, and I wouldn't be the least concerned about pushback from the fired guy.  You don't need a legal department to make this call.

I hate, hate, hate even somewhat defending this complete morons, but to be clear these guys never actually said the FHRINP line, they just defended its use (again, using the kind of reasoning you would expect from a couple of complete morons). So I'm not really sure you could say that these two guys committed sexual assault.

Even if sexual assault is too strong, it's certainly sexual harassment.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Stickytape said:
Even if sexual assault is too strong, it's certainly sexual harassment.

Yup, no doubt about that from me.

Sorry about that, I thought they said it. If they had, it would constitute sexual harassment -- which is what I should have said, not assault.

If they were just defending the right of someone to say such things then it's much less clear whether they could or should be fired for it.
 
Snoop Dogg, eh?

Maybe he should learn more proper English:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/snoop-dogg-s-sexist-comments-about-camerawoman-creepy-and-awkward-1.3102580
 
Ok I'd like to deal with two things really quickly. (not on you hockeyfan1 more the original reporter)

Snoop Dogg creepily came on to a woman? Not News.
His whole character is being a creepy womanizer. She was there to interview Snoop Dogg not whatever the crap his real name is. Nobody gives a crap about Snoop Doggs stamp collection or anything real about him... This is equal to interviewing Quagmire and getting upset that he said something inappropriate.  Base question "Should women accept men being creepy pervs" No. Not at all. But as a reporter who accepted to do a 'positive piece' on a creepy perv you can't get offended, quite a bit after the fact, that he didn't break character. No character, no story. Everyone involved knows this, you don't think he felt pressure to perform with a camera in his face?

Edit: Just re-read and its mostly the camera woman concerned but I don't see much difference other then he could have excluded the camera woman but that's still not in character. Creepy pervs hit on every girl they aren't picky thats the character.

Second thing. Cindy Crosby.
NOT SEXIST. Has nothing to do with women, their ability to play, or their value in comparison to men.
Cindy Crosby is a taunt meant to emasculate Crosby. Specifically make him weaker by throwing him off his game by depriving him of his male identity. Men need to be the manliest of men or women wont kiss us. If you can't be manlier then him, simply make him look less manly. Its literally that cut and dry.

Men, treat ladies with respect, don't be all pervy
Ladies, please stop jumping at shadows there are still monsters out there, we should all be focusing on them.
Men, women, were all human. Accept the commonalities but most importantly "Vive La Difference!"
 
MetalRaven said:
Second thing. Cindy Crosby.
NOT SEXIST. Has nothing to do with women, their ability to play, or their value in comparison to men.
Cindy Crosby is a taunt meant to emasculate Crosby. Specifically make him weaker by throwing him off his game by depriving him of his male identity. Men need to be the manliest of men or women wont kiss us. If you can't be manlier then him, simply make him look less manly. Its literally that cut and dry. 

I'm confused. You claim it's not sexist, but then you immediately make a very good argument for why it is sexist (without even realizing it apparently).
 
CarltonTheBear said:
MetalRaven said:
Second thing. Cindy Crosby.
NOT SEXIST. Has nothing to do with women, their ability to play, or their value in comparison to men.
Cindy Crosby is a taunt meant to emasculate Crosby. Specifically make him weaker by throwing him off his game by depriving him of his male identity. Men need to be the manliest of men or women wont kiss us. If you can't be manlier then him, simply make him look less manly. Its literally that cut and dry. 

I'm confused. You claim it's not sexist, but then you immediately make a very good argument for why it is sexist (without even realizing it apparently).


Yeah. You can't equate "masculinity" with strength without de facto associating femininity with weakness. By saying that he's "weaker" if he's more like a woman is pretty cut and dried in it's pretty rote sexism.
 

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