What do you think Nazem Kadri is worth to the Leafs?
- Thread starter stephen_mogilny
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Sarge said:
Well the insurance policy also included Bozak, who's playing well with the top two forwards, Grabovski anchors the second line...
I mean, you could very well be correct about his endurance but I think this is situational, he's thrived with more minutes before, more pp production and toi while playing meaningful minutes on a good pk and similar decent es toi and production. It's just that he's a stopgap you're worrying about that should be easy to fix if they need to purely in terms of cap space. He's a free bandaid, have to rip 'em off sometime.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Sarge said:
I think the endurance thing is really you reading too much into the TOI stat. He's lower in the rankings in TOI/G because he's played so much of the season as a 3rd line centre and very little as a 1st line centre because of how well Bozak has fit in with Kessel & Lupul and how good Grabovski has been. No more, no less.
maplesyrup
New member
bustaheims said:
... and there's half my problem... Almost 5 mil for a 3rd line centre... and the other half as I stated (and why I'm questioning his endurance) is that in those reduced minutes, I often see him behind the play. Now, is that because when he's on the 1st line there's no way he's keeping up with Kessel and on the 3rd, no way he's keeping up with Lombardi? Maybe that's part of it I suppose but I don't see Bozak struggling as much. What am I missing here? What makes Bozak (who is not light out fast) a much better fit on the top line? Perhaps if one can identify what it is about Bozak that Connolly lacks, it would better explain what it is about Connolly's play that I'm frustrated with. Anyone care to take a stab at that? - Because at the moment, all I can come up with is endurance.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Sarge said:
Well, what makes Bozak a better fit on the top line than Connolly is really pretty straight-forward - better chemistry with Kessel and Lupul, or, at least, more established chemistry with them. It's essentially a case of "if it ain't broke . . . " Bozak is a better skater, as well. As for the rest, part of the reason you perceive Connolly to be behind the play is that he's not the swiftest of skaters (at least, not for longer stretches), part of it is that he's often down deeper in the defensive end (he has been very good defensively) and part of it is that he's creating another option late on the rush, finding open ice, etc. I agree with you in that his cap hit isn't ideal for a 3rd line centre, but, I really don't see endurance being a problem and I think you're reaching for reasons to find it to be one.
Sarge said:
You're getting stuck on role associations, it's not necessarily that Connolly lacks what Bozak has on the '1st' line, it's that Bozak works on the '1st' line. If you don't have to use your insurance, in some cases, you can borrow against it, right? For his role he's doing fine, sure he's overpaid for it but the Leafs haven't needed him to preform a higher one for most of the year.
What you're missing is actually Tyler.
Can't say I agree that I've seen him 'behind' the play as you're inferring, no more so than most other centres.
maplesyrup
New member
Bah... In my mind he's redundant and a largely replaceable piece in the same way Timmy Brent was. Speaking of which;
Connolly - 42 GP - 7G, 18A - 25 pts - 17:08 TOI/G - 4.75 mil X 2 years
Brent - 51GP - 7G, 9A - 16pts - 09:56 TOI/G - 0.75 mil x 2
... and just who exactly are Brent's line mates in Carolina?
I mean, if Brent got Connolly's minutes, he could be having a better season than Connolly for crying out loud. Why didn't we just keep Brent... for 8 mil. less? Anyway, I'm not a Connolly fan... if I'm a bad person for it, so be it.
Connolly - 42 GP - 7G, 18A - 25 pts - 17:08 TOI/G - 4.75 mil X 2 years
Brent - 51GP - 7G, 9A - 16pts - 09:56 TOI/G - 0.75 mil x 2
... and just who exactly are Brent's line mates in Carolina?
I mean, if Brent got Connolly's minutes, he could be having a better season than Connolly for crying out loud. Why didn't we just keep Brent... for 8 mil. less? Anyway, I'm not a Connolly fan... if I'm a bad person for it, so be it.
Bit of an odd comparison to make seeing as how Connolly is primarily a playmaker and has double the assists Brent has (also Brent has 16 points not 19).
I don't think anybody is going to argue that Connolly isn't overpaid. He certainly is. But that's not his fault. He was brought in to play first line centre with Kessel and Lupul, and while he didn't look awful with those two Bozak just looked better. And after last season nobody was expecting Bozak to play like he is right now. So with the top-2 centre positions spoken for, Connolly has to settle for the 3rd line role and I don't think he's exactly looked out of place there.
I don't think anybody is going to argue that Connolly isn't overpaid. He certainly is. But that's not his fault. He was brought in to play first line centre with Kessel and Lupul, and while he didn't look awful with those two Bozak just looked better. And after last season nobody was expecting Bozak to play like he is right now. So with the top-2 centre positions spoken for, Connolly has to settle for the 3rd line role and I don't think he's exactly looked out of place there.
maplesyrup
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
16 okay, my bad... I'll fix that but part of the reason why Connolly has 9 more assists than Brent does (and 9 isn't a big number) is that Brent has worse line mates... and it's not even close... FAR WORSE... As far as the rest of your post goes - Agreed. Look, I understand the circumstances in which we signed Connolly, I just don't like that it hasn't worked out and really, that's on him.
proteus2000
New member
I agree that Connolly is a major underachiever based purely on salary..I get what Burke was hoping for, and Timmy was given the chance, but Bozak outperformed him for the slot. But at least Connolly is fairly defensively responsible and he only has 1 more year on his contract, so it's not like the Leafs are stuck with him like some teams are with really bad contracts. Like another poster said, the Leafs wouldn't have done anything differently with the salary spent on him this year, opening up 4.75 mil on his expiring contract to a team who would want it next year or for the Leafs in the following year.
pnjunction
New member
You know we wouldn't be moaning so much about spending 3 and 4+ million on guys pushed to the bottom 6 of the depth chart if we weren't completely healthy right now.
Inevitably again in the future one or two or more guys are going to get hurt and then we should be thankful to have guys that can hopefully step up into bigger roles. On that topic it will also give a chance for guys like Kadri to step into the open spots and show what they can bring.
Inevitably again in the future one or two or more guys are going to get hurt and then we should be thankful to have guys that can hopefully step up into bigger roles. On that topic it will also give a chance for guys like Kadri to step into the open spots and show what they can bring.
Rebel_1812
New member
Sarge said:
Connolly hasn't been playing with Kessel and Lupul. He is our most skilled center, he should be given a chance to play with the other skilled players in order to produce.
pnjunction
New member
Rebel_1812 said:
I'm still optimistic about what Connolly might be able to do when he gets a crack at the top 6 again but....Grabovski is our most skilled center IMO
maplesyrup
New member
You know who also would have been a better/cheaper "insurance policy" than Connolly? - Arnott.
Connolly - 42 GP - 7G, 18A - 25 pts - 17:08 TOI/G - 4.75 mil X 2 years
Arnott - 49GP - 12G, 12A - 24 pts - 14:30 TOI/G - 2.875 mil x 1 year.
Again, here's a cheaper guy who's likely to be more productive than Connolly with Connolly's ice time. Sure, Arnott doesn't kill penalties but still, I can't help but think Arnott might have been the safer/better - choice and I don't recall there being a ton of demand for him either. He certainly has the size that we're desperately trying to find now. :-\
Anyway, I don't mean to be ripping on Connolly so much... Perhaps this is more of a reflection on the Leaf brass but sometimes it's just fun to look back.
Connolly - 42 GP - 7G, 18A - 25 pts - 17:08 TOI/G - 4.75 mil X 2 years
Arnott - 49GP - 12G, 12A - 24 pts - 14:30 TOI/G - 2.875 mil x 1 year.
Again, here's a cheaper guy who's likely to be more productive than Connolly with Connolly's ice time. Sure, Arnott doesn't kill penalties but still, I can't help but think Arnott might have been the safer/better - choice and I don't recall there being a ton of demand for him either. He certainly has the size that we're desperately trying to find now. :-\
Anyway, I don't mean to be ripping on Connolly so much... Perhaps this is more of a reflection on the Leaf brass but sometimes it's just fun to look back.
Sarge said:
Arnott would have definitely been a better option for the 3rd line. The problem is the Leafs weren't looking for a 3rd line centre, they were looking for a 1st line centre and Arnott would have looked ridiculous between Kessel and Lupul.