Wild @ Leafs - Feb. 24th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[Frank E]

Dermott and Liljegren out there..

Liljegren played just over 18 mins with almost 5mins PK.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

My point is no matter who you are, how long you've been in the league, how much you make etc etc there comes a time when the coaching staff has to say enough is enough.

It actually does matter who you are because not every single problem has the same solution and not every player needs to be coached the same way.

100% this

 

[bustaheims]

My point is no matter who you are, how long you've been in the league, how much you make etc etc there comes a time when the coaching staff has to say enough is enough.

It actually does matter who you are because not every single problem has the same solution and not every player needs to be coached the same way.

100% this

It honestly surprises me how many fully grown adults struggle with this pretty basic concept. Every problem requires its own solution.

 

[L K]

So why no penalty for Zucc tripping Kerfoot AFTER he scored the empty net goal.

 

[herman]

Lyubushkin getting the green light to engage in extending OZ plays down low is pretty interesting. He can absolutely make a 5-ft pass, even if it isn't the most creative or optimal option, so just shoveling the puck into more dangerous ice for the forwards to problem-solve with (and getting the breakout defense to change directions) is a positive.

 

[Bullfrog]

Interesting fact. Lybushkin has 4 hits as a Leaf in under 5 periods. On this pace he should catch Nylander in the next game who has 8 for the whole season. Brutal.

This a very odd and non-sensical comparison..next let?s do his scoring vs Willy?

It's basically brings to light what Willy is bashed for which some of you honestly don't get. I don't expect any of your stars to go out and flatten people but 8 hits on the year tells me his desire to compete for the puck etc flat out sucks. Guy has and always will shy away from contact. Been a knock on him since day 1 and nothings changed.

He?s so awful at competing for the puck that he?s 11th in the league in take-aways

U got me there but it's definitely not from knocking people off the puck or flattening anyone. Leafs were smart they should ship him off to Arizona for Chychrun. Improve this D.

So you're admitting he's very effective at taking away the puck (aka "defense"), but you're still unhappy because he doesn't take it away the way you want him too? (hits)

I enjoy the fact that Nylander is rarely injured and is available to play.

 

[Kin]

Selke and Conn Smythe winner Ryan O'Reilly has 15 hits on the year. 3 time Cup Champion Patrick Kane has 7.

Seriously...hits?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

"I'm livid that Nylander isn't doing things that he isn't good at and instead using his strengths to perform plays that accomplish the same task."

Like I get that Nylander, like a lot of NHLers (even good ones), can struggle with consistency over an 82-game season but the idea that he doesn't compete enough has always been just such a lazy narrative around him. We unfortunately don't get these stats updated publicly enough but back in 17/18 he literally led all forwards in neutral zone stick checks, plays where he?s able to separate an opponent from the puck with his stick. Then add in the fact that he's regularly leading or right at the top of the team in takeaways throughout his career. He's just significantly better separating the puck away from an opposing player with his stick than his body. Asking him to hit more would literally make him a worse hockey player.

 

[bustaheims]

As I said in another thread, some people have a very narrow definition of what effort (or compete or whatever term they want to use) should look like. If you're not doing that, you're not working hard enough, regardless of how effective you are actually being. There's a segment of hockey fandom that prefers the player that always looks like he's trying hard regardless of his impact.

Seriously, if you can have as big or bigger an impact without laying guys out, why would you change the way you play? Nylander is very good at regaining possession. No reason he needs to put himself out of position by laying guys out. All that does is take him out of the play when the puck gets loose. Matthews showed last night why small defensive plays and subtle moves like stick lifts can be so much more effective.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

My biggest complaint about Nylander is a recent one. He's been flat footed a lot lately. He wasn't watching as much early in the season IMO. It's not a "get rid of him" critique...Just an observation really.

 

[herman]

Nylander came up the hockey system playing significantly higher than his age group most of the time, so his game was built against using his skating and stick skills to beat much larger players to the puck. He's a bigger body now and has adapted to use it to hang onto the puck even better in board battles.

Hitting is a valid way to separate the puck from an opponent, but so is a good stick check with sound defensive positioning. One play sort of blends the puck separation and puck control.

 

[herman]

My biggest complaint about Nylander is a recent one. He's been flat footed a lot lately. He wasn't watching as much early in the season IMO. It's not a "get rid of him" critique...Just an observation really.

He does look like he's not in the game flow at times, so getting caught reacting rather than dictating play as he does most of the time.

 

[Guilt Trip]

My biggest complaint about Nylander is a recent one. He's been flat footed a lot lately. He wasn't watching as much early in the season IMO. It's not a "get rid of him" critique...Just an observation really.

That's mine also. Standing around in his own end. The goals and points will come.

 

[ZBBM]

"I'm livid that Nylander isn't doing things that he isn't good at and instead using his strengths to perform plays that accomplish the same task."

Like I get that Nylander, like a lot of NHLers (even good ones), can struggle with consistency over an 82-game season but the idea that he doesn't compete enough has always been just such a lazy narrative around him. We unfortunately don't get these stats updated publicly enough but back in 17/18 he literally led all forwards in neutral zone stick checks, plays where he?s able to separate an opponent from the puck with his stick. Then add in the fact that he's regularly leading or right at the top of the team in takeaways throughout his career. He's just significantly better separating the puck away from an opposing player with his stick than his body. Asking him to hit more would literally make him a worse hockey player.

Yeah, well explain to me then why Lyubushkin shouldn't center the first line and let Matthews play wing.

 

[herman]

"I'm livid that Nylander isn't doing things that he isn't good at and instead using his strengths to perform plays that accomplish the same task."

Like I get that Nylander, like a lot of NHLers (even good ones), can struggle with consistency over an 82-game season but the idea that he doesn't compete enough has always been just such a lazy narrative around him. We unfortunately don't get these stats updated publicly enough but back in 17/18 he literally led all forwards in neutral zone stick checks, plays where he?s able to separate an opponent from the puck with his stick. Then add in the fact that he's regularly leading or right at the top of the team in takeaways throughout his career. He's just significantly better separating the puck away from an opposing player with his stick than his body. Asking him to hit more would literally make him a worse hockey player.

Yeah, well explain to me then why Lyubushkin shouldn't center the first line and let Matthews play wing.

I know this is just facetiousness, but stopping a play and creating a scoring play are significantly different mental burdens.

 

[azzurri63]

Nylander came up the hockey system playing significantly higher than his age group most of the time, so his game was built against using his skating and stick skills to beat much larger players to the puck. He's a bigger body now and has adapted to use it to hang onto the puck even better in board battles.

Hitting is a valid way to separate the puck from an opponent, but so is a good stick check with sound defensive positioning. One play sort of blends the puck separation and puck control.

My whole knock on him and what my complaint is his lack of desire to go to the dirty areas, avoids contact all the time etc etc. He retrieves pucks well that's a good thing but how often have we seen him shy away from opponents or give up on plays because he doesn't want contact. It's absolutely horrible to watch and the worst part about it is he's not a small player. Said it last week Matthews to me this year has picked up his game this year and I personally think it's because he's using his body more. Leafs aren't a bruising team but when you compare his hits to the rest of the team it's frustrating the comparisons. We've been saying this about him since he entered the league. You always wonder as they mature maybe that element will pick up in their game but you ain't going to see it with Willy it is what it is. You don't win championships with guys like him sorry but keep defending him.

 

[louisstamos]

You don't win championships with guys like him sorry but keep defending him.

2x cup winner Phil Kessel would like to have a word with you...

 

[Kin]

You don't win championships with guys like him sorry but keep defending him.

You should really let Chicago know they won't win any championships with Kane.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm pretty sure every Cup winner in recent history has had at least one prominent player who didn't go into dirty areas and tried to avoid contact. Your whole team can't play that way, but you can absolutely win with guys like that.

 

[herman]

Nylander came up the hockey system playing significantly higher than his age group most of the time, so his game was built against using his skating and stick skills to beat much larger players to the puck. He's a bigger body now and has adapted to use it to hang onto the puck even better in board battles.

Hitting is a valid way to separate the puck from an opponent, but so is a good stick check with sound defensive positioning. One play sort of blends the puck separation and puck control.

My whole knock on him and what my complaint is his lack of desire to go to the dirty areas, avoids contact all the time etc etc. He retrieves pucks well that's a good thing but how often have we seen him shy away from opponents or give up on plays because he doesn't want contact. It's absolutely horrible to watch and the worst part about it is he's not a small player. Said it last week Matthews to me this year has picked up his game this year and I personally think it's because he's using his body more. Leafs aren't a bruising team but when you compare his hits to the rest of the team it's frustrating the comparisons. We've been saying this about him since he entered the league. You always wonder as they mature maybe that element will pick up in their game but you ain't going to see it with Willy it is what it is. You don't win championships with guys like him sorry but keep defending him.

If you look up Nylander's game events, you'll find most of them are in the 'dirty areas' of the ice; takeaways everywhere, goals from the circles and in. At this point it just sounds like you've made up your mind, regardless of video and statistical evidence. If Nylander was the only player we had, I could agree we wouldn't win a championship.

Matthews has always used his body defensively and to pick up the puck. He's better defensively now because he got coached to improve his awareness and commitment to staying on the right side of the play.